 | Posted by: | Brittney Jones, chdrfry@hotmail.com | | Subject: | HELP ME PLEASE URGENT | | When: | 3:11 PM, 05 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 65.6.222.166 |
When I found him in his cage when I arrived home today, I found my glider on the bottom of his cage uncovered. He had his eyes shut. I picked him up, eyes still shut, and he put a death grip on my arm. He appears to be extremely weak and refuses to eat or drink unless I put water on his nose. His movenment (when he does move) is extremely slow.
I did clean the cage out last night and washed it with MILD detergent. Afterwards, I soaked his cage down with hot water for 10 minutes to remove any soap trails.
Also, I am msging this because there are very few vets that have experience with sugar gliders in my home town. His regular doctors are out of town or booked solid.
PLEASE HELP
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| Posted by: | Gliderlover, Angie_nightgirl@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 3:29 PM, 05 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
Okay, first thing first, call your vet and tell them you are bringing your sugar glider in and that it is an EMERGENCY! If they say no, take him to an animal hospital! Please do not delay, take him right away to the vet! Right now you can give him a bit of water mixed with honey in a syringe! Put it to his mouth and see if he will lick it off of the syringe! Keep him wrapped in a towel, make sure he is warm!
| Posted by: | Brittney Jones, chdrfry@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 3:46 PM, 05 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 65.6.222.166 |
Only one vet with experience with gliders is in town. She is booked solid and she refuses to see him until thursday even though I told her that it was an emergency. I bought pedialite, and he is drinking some of that, but only when I force him to. He normally eats anything he can get his hands on, but he won't eat anything. All of the other vets refuse to see him because they don't have glider experience. What do I do?!
| Posted by: | Gliderlover, Angie_nightgirl@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 4:31 PM, 05 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
Where are you located? I can do a search to see if I can find you another vet in your area! Do you have an animal hospital nearby? I find that even though most of them dont have experience with gliders, they do know what to do in emergencies! How is your glider doing? What diet are you feeding him? Remember to keep him warm and keep trying to give him pedialyte or honey water. Does the pedialyte have sugar in it? He may need the sugar if he is hypoglycemic. My prayers are with you and your glider, I hope that he is doing better!
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | Do NOT use sugar | | When: | 6:00 PM, 05 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.235 |
If you are dealing with a poison do not use honey or sugar, my responce to you on SG.net in general tells you exactly what you have to do. Through a vets mouth,
| Posted by: | Brittney Jones, chdrfry@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 6:12 PM, 05 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 65.6.222.166 |
I finally convinced the vet to see him. He was very dehydrated. When she pulled up the skin on his back, it stayed up about 1/2" to and 1". She held him on his back in her hand without any struggle and palpated his stomach. She was very concerned about what she felt. She said that she had a lot of things that shouldn't have been there, and that his liver was very large. She suggested cancer, or some type of blockage. During the past three hours I did not see him urinate or defecate once, and he usually does both immediately when I wake him up. He never made a move or struggled until she was eeling around his neck and head. Then he tried to attack her, but it wan't as strong as his usual attacks.
She doesn't think it is poison or a calcium deficiency. She thinks it has something to do with his liver and digestive tract. She is keeping him in an incubator tonight and tomorrow night. They are not open tomorrow, but she is coming in to take care of him. She is going to give him fluids and vitamins, and something to help move anything that may be blocking his digestive tract. She seemed extremely worried about him and warned me that he may not make it through the night. She is going to call me tomorrow morning and tell me how he is doing. If he is more alert and seems healthier, she wants to do an xray. I will let you all know as soon as I find out.
Please say a prayer for my baby. He is going to need them.
Brittney
Edgar and Kayla
| Posted by: | Gliderlover, Angie_nightgirl@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 7:56 PM, 05 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
Poor little guy, I hope he gets better! I didn't think it was poisoning, you mentioned washing the detergent off of the cage and that it was only a mild detergent. I'm so relieved that your vet finally took him in, I've been watching this post since my first response and have been hoping that your glider would get to the vet. I'll definitely keep him in my prayers! Thank you for keeping us posted!
Angie
Mocha & Meiko
Mango & Mojo (and two newly OOP joeys)
All of us are praying for your boy!
| Posted by: | Debbie, delliott@telocity.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 8:24 PM, 05 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 216.227.111.97 |
Brittany,
I would think he would have needed an I.V. for immediate rehydration. Did she do this? I am amazed at how fast these critters can get sick! You did everything right!!! I hope all is well in the morning!
| Posted by: | Brittney Jones, chdrfry@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:26 PM, 05 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 65.6.222.166 |
She said she was going to give him fluids tonight, so I am sure that she gave him an I.V. I can't believe he got sick so fast! He acted normal yesterday, and then today he could barely move. I hope I did everything that I could, and I think I did. He is in the vet's hands, and she seemed very competent to me. Thank you for your concern and support.
Brittney
Edgar and Kayla
| Posted by: | Lu, frufru33@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:10 AM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.181.155 |
Please keep us posted! I'm very concerned. My Winky doesn't poop well lately. I already took her to the vet. He gave her some medicine to open her appetite to no avail. She hardly eats, hates the leadbeaters and doesn't poop (or hardly, for that matter.) Last night I had to force-feed her some leadbeaters w/ a syringe so she could get the nutrients that she needs. Does anyone think it's ok to give her a tiny bit of prune juice or a piece of prune? Brittney, let us know what's going on. I'm praying for your baby and thinking positive!
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:24 AM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.172 |
I pray that kept fluids going in to him throughout the night, as for poisoning, what wasn't mentioned on this thread, that was mentioned on another is that her roomate, had just sprayed for bugs, the day before, which is why she cleaned the cage. Our concern (vets as well as other owners) is that the residual was on a toy, or the water bottle, got a bug that had been through it etc..), we are only talking about a days difference with the spray, cage cleaning and illness. There was no indication of hyperglicemia, nor any other indication that there would be another contributing factor. I went back over her diet, she is feeding BML, fruits, veggies, mealworms, with yogart and baby food as treats. there isn't anything she offers that would cause intestional blockages. HOWEVER; lets look at the symptoms.. dehydration, yes poisons cause this in fact in my other post I told her to watch for dehydration and how to check for it. Poisons attack the liver, that is what the liver is for, it is a filter. to treat this, the system needs to be flushed with clear liquids, pedalyte, apple juice mixed with water or water, a sub q injection would also help flush it. ABSOLUTLY no sugars or honey, as it may cause a chemical reaction in side the stomach area. the sugar has an explosive property that may cause the gliders insides to swell expand and maybe explode. The fact it hadn't urinated or deficated. is simple she was dehydrated, therefore couldn't, if there is a blockage now it is understandable, but again I am going to tell everyone NOT to give out info without knowing what the situation is. I do understand that this is all she had written here, but if she did give the honey or sugar, it very well may have made the problem worse.
When the cage was cleaned we believe that some residual may have been on the yoys or in the perch, or branch. that maybe a bug could have been eaten that was infected with the spray. the time period would point to this being the issue. I do hope this little glider makes it, I do hope the flushing of the system works. Brittney, our prayers are with you both.
| Posted by: | Lin | | Subject: | none | | When: | 11:49 AM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 64.12.102.167 |
Hi Brittney,
I wanted to let you know that my baby girl is sick too and I know whats its like not to be able to get them to eat or drink. She is very dehydrated and malnurished. She is slowly getting better at a glider resue place. (irish cream)
So keep your head up and Ill say a prayer for your little guy.
| Posted by: | Judie, RichJHausmann@cs.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:12 PM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.199.158 |
Bourbon, any update on the above glider? Brittney lost the mate to the above glider about two weeks ago. They were housed together. She has another glider who is housed in a seperate cage but in the same room and is not exibiting any signs of illness as of yet. Personally I do not feel it is from the spray. Because of the lose of the mate to this very ill glider it more than likely it is from some sort of bacteria, parasite, or virus. Do not know if the first glider that died was seen by a vet or not. I hope Brittney's little guy is doing better.
| Posted by: | Brittney Jones, chdrfry@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 2:20 PM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 65.6.222.166 |
My vet called me this morning and told me that Edgar did not make it though the night. She is going to do an autopsy on him because she doesn't know why he got sick. She knew about the spray, but she had ruled out poison. I was told that she was the most experienced vet in Lexington, and was referred to her over and over again by other vets. Therefore I trusted her with my baby's life.
I sis not make this post. My boyfriend did it for me while I tried to find a vet that could see him. Unfortunately he did not mention the spray. I fed Edgar honey and water as suggested, and I hope this did not make his condition worse.
I know in my heart that we did the right thing by leaving him with the vet overnight. She has much more experience and knowledge than we do, and she did everything or him that she could. Even though I know we did the right thing, I can't help but wish that I had kept him with me. At least then he would have died alone, in a strange place, without his mommy and daddy.
Even as I am typing this I am crying, as I have been since I got the call this morning. It is hard to believe that you could come to love someone so much in only a few months, but there was something about Edgar that you couldn't help but love. I know he is in a better place, playing with Lenny, his friend of two years.
We love you Edgar and you will always be in our hearts.
Brittney and Rusty
Kayla
| Posted by: | Kimi, norby@greenepa.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 2:22 PM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 209.117.80.97 |
Brittany, my prayers are with you, please keep us posted as to any progress, holding my breath so to speak.....
Kimi
| Posted by: | Kimi, norby@greenepa.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 2:26 PM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 209.117.80.97 |
OMG I'm so sorry I must have posted bout the same time you did:( Really am so sorry for your loss....
Kimi
| Posted by: | Jim M | | Subject: | Good luck Brittney, Lu and Lin | | When: | 2:34 PM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 128.255.99.21 |
Just a guick question on the poison theory-- Did the vet draw some blood and tested the liver enzymes, i.e. phase 1 and 2 enzymes as well as bilirubin levels and serum protein levels? This will be an indicator of toxicity. Most pesticides are neurological agents and that is probably why the vet ruled out. It is true that the liver can become damaged by toxins and toxicants, but the chemical agent is tranferred to the liver via blood, where the phase 1 and 2 biotransformation enzymes break it down or add onto it. This is where the trouble begins because it becomes a neutral, non-harming metabolite or a toxic metabolite. This is what specifically happens when antifreeze is ingested by man or animal. Ethylene glycol is converted to Oxalic acid in the liver and then this crystallizes in the kidney, thus damaging them. Since those are damaged, the kidneys cannot filter and toxins accumulate in the blood and whamo-> Big problems! Sorry about rambling on, but it would be of interest to know what specific pestcide was sprayed in the room. If they know that, then they will know the side effects as well and can rule it out. I think this is a great case of never underestimating the potential causative agent. I pray your little one pulls through!!! Good luck!!!!!
P.S. If it is microbiological, it is probably a virus because there aren't many parasites or bacteria that will cause dehydration and constipation.
| Posted by: | Judie, RichJHausmann@cs.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 3:59 PM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 152.163.204.198 |
Brittney, I am so sorry about Edgar. It is a terrible pain to loose a Sugar Glider. There is something very special about these little guys that leave such an impact when they leave us. Perhaps it is because they are so small in size yet give so much love.
Please have you last glider vet checked as soon as possible to be on the safe side as she may have been exposed to a viral or bacterial infection. You want to head it off before she becomes sick. Once severly ill it is very difficult to change the outcome.
Again, I am so sorry. May your heart heal with time.
| Posted by: | Robin | | Subject: | none | | When: | 4:38 PM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 207.19.106.75 |
I cannot begin to express how very sorry I am to hear about your loss, especially two of them so closely together. I am thinking about you and praying for the best for your remaining buddy.
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | none | | When: | 7:06 PM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.186 |
Judie, I was aware of the other glider; but 2 weeks, vs the one day of the spray, seeing that she said something about the liver and digestive system, I have to agree with both you and Jim, that a necropsy may show what the cause was, however remeber that many times the necropsies come back with an agent but if it is a pesticide agent, that could be anywhere from the spray to the pesticides used on fruits, so the real cause may never be know if those lesions are found on the liver. Viral, bacterial? Yes But I can't think of any that would cause such swelling in the digestive system. even parasitic, Most of the necropsyies I have discussed with zoopaths and such with liver damage has been toxicity, usually from food poisoning or pesticides.. But seldom is found to specific enough to know from the origin of it. There was a necropsy done on a glider not to long ago where the pesticides made the liver literally explode in the glider. IT is something you definitly don't rule out. Jim, I don't think any blood was taken, as she wouldn't take xrays till she was stronger. From what I understand the white gum test that is used on other animals are not a good indicator on a glider.. As their gums are actually cover with skin and muscle. I would be interested as to how she did rule it out though.
Brittney, I am so very sorry dear, I am glad the vet is going to keep her and see if she can find out more.
| Posted by: | Jasmine, Spookie_Girl@yahoo.com | | Subject: | Urinary tract infection? | | When: | 8:05 PM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 165.247.112.239 |
Brittney-
I'm very sorry about your loss. I read that your vet may have thought your glider had an intestinal blockage. Did she rule out a urinary tract infection? My little Zelda showed the same symptoms and it turned out that's what she had.
When I found Zelda she was very weak and dehydrated laying on the bottom of her cage. She couldn't even stand up. I rushed her to my vet's believing she would be dead by the time the commute ended. Once we got there, my vet x-rayed her. He didn't even need to restrain her for the x-ray she was so weak. He found what looked like a blockage in her lower abdomen. After giving her blood tests and a urinalysis, he decided to treat her for a urinary tract infection and prescribed 2 different kinds of anti-biotics. He also gave me a bag of fluid to hydrate her with, and some paper strips to test her urine for blood every day. Because he knew that I had prior experience with medicating animals so he sent her home with me. I had to inject her with antibiotics and fluids 4-6 times a day. I also administered baby food and Pedialyte to her orally. After a week of this Zelda took a turn for the better. The breakthrough came when she gained enough energy to bite me really hard and dashed into the kitchen. I couldn't blame her...she was beginning to look like a furry water balloon pin-cushion.
If your vet is interested, I could provide you with my vet's number so they could exchange info. If your baby had what mine did, it may prevent such a tragedy from happening again, or perhaps they could at least share notes. It's amazing how far a good glider vets goes for their clients.
-Jas
| Posted by: | Barb, blooprints@yahoo.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:49 PM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 63.178.65.68 |
I'm sorry for your loss; my heart goes out to you. I lost my favorite glider, Jessica Joy to hernia surgery some years ago, and I still cry when I think about. She will always have first place in my heart. I lost another male glider before her; I had had him about six months and he was so healthy. One day he just stopped breathing; he was autopsied and the vet found nothing - said he was an exquisite animal and appeared to be in excellent health, that he understood why I was so upset. In both cases there was nothing I could have done...Had the vet and I known that Jessica's mass was a hernia, neither of us would have chosen to have her operated on. She woke up as the vet was sewing her up, and she started to pull stitches out, so he had to give her another dose of anesthesia. Altho I was able to take her home, she never quite totally woke up. My prayers are with you: I know how much you are hurting, so God be with you.
| Posted by: | Gliderlover, Angie_nightgirl@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:16 PM, 06 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
I'm so sorry about your loss of Edgar. You did everything you could and you did a wonderful job even if it ended up with loss. I hope the vet can tell you what was wrong. Dont be mad at yourself for bringing Edgar to the vet, you didn't know that he wouldn't make it. You gave him the best chance of living by taking him to the vet. I'll keep you in my prayers.
Angie 
| Posted by: | sorry | | Subject: | none | | When: | 8:07 AM, 07 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.193.164 |
so sorry about your gider i cried when i read the story. my prayers are with you hope you find out more to easeyour heart good luck to you and little friend at home.
| Posted by: | Brittney Jones, chdrfry@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 12:09 PM, 07 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 65.6.222.166 |
I just talked to the vet. She said the necropsy showed that Edgar died of pancreitis (spelling?). She said all of the lumps that she had felt in his stomach were fat, and that both his pancreas and his liver were surrounded by fat. That explains why his liver felt so large. She said she thinks that his obesity caused his death. From what she said, and what I undestood, his obesity caused him to develop pancreitis. When this happened, the pancreas released digestive enzymes into the stomach. These enzymes then proceeded to eat away at his stomach and everything around it. That is why he was in so much pain. She said that this is a very dangerous illness that often results in death.
When I adopted Edgar, he was very overweight. He was regularly given nuts. In fact, his owner sent a bag of nuts home with us. We were told that his previous vet had said he was a good weight for his size, so I wasn't overly concerned about his weight. However, I did atempt to slim him down by taking the fat out of his diet. Unfortunately we did occassionally give him half of a peanut. With his large size, as with obese humans, his metabolism was very slow and it would have taken a huge decrease in his diet to make a significant effect on his weight. I feel that I am partially to blame for not recognizing the severity of his obesity, but I had never had an obese glider before. I should have put him on a stricter diet, but I was weak. I will always blame myself a little.
Brittney
Kayla
| Posted by: | Gliderlover, Angie_nightgirl@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 12:55 PM, 07 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
Brittney, please dont blame yourself! I have learned over the years that blaming yourself just makes grieving all that much harder and longer. Try to remember the good times you had with Edgar, that got me through my loss of my precious Emily. The good memories will make you laugh and cry and will clean out the grief in your soul. Edgar sounds like he was spoiled and I bet he had a very happy life. The site below has a very beautiful poem that I find helps.
<a href=http://www.petloss.com/poems/maingrp/rainbowb.htm>http://www.petloss.com/poems/maingrp/rainbowb.htm</a>
Angie
| Posted by: | Barb, blooprints@yahoo.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:15 PM, 07 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 63.180.48.17 |
Thanks for sharing. I am so sorry for your loss, but perhaps the knowledged gained will save another glider's life. The family that had my GG's Gigi lost her overnight when the visiting grandpa washed off and gave her 2 cashews. This healthy girl died the next day. I always warn people about giving too many nuts of any kind. My gliders get nuts, but not every day - sometimes not even once a month. (My chubbies lost the fat when they were on Brisky's.) God bless you. We know you did what you could.
| Posted by: | Brittney Jones, chdrfry@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 4:10 PM, 07 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 65.6.222.166 |
Hi, this is Brittney's boyfriend, and I am the one that posted the first message. In my haste, I left out the part about the pesticides. I wasn't in a good frame of mind and left out a very important fact. I feel like his death is my fault, and I wish, more than anything, that I could have another chance.
However, I want everyone to know a little about Edgar and my experiences with him. When we were first given these gliders, we had to drive to Florence to pick them up. The owner did mention that one was a bit large, but that fact was ignored as Lenny emerged from behind the pillow he was hiding. He was adorable. He was incredibly frisky and did his best to avoid me at first. After a few minutes though, he succumbed and I was able to handle him. Now, our search for Edgar began.
Eventually, we found Edgar buried into a pillow case. When I saw him, I fell in love with him immediately. Yes, he was overweight, but he was the cutest glider I have ever seen. His round and fluffy face made you forget about his weight and urged you to give him a peanut. We then took the gliders home and began our life with them.
At first, Lenny had a hard time adapting to the surroudings. On the other hand, Edgar was content as long as he had his shoe. The days passed and Edgar became even more tame and loveable.
My fondest memories of Edgar are some that include his "licking obsession." He, out of no where, would grab your finger and proceed licking it. His little hands would hold them so tight as he insisted on licking each and every finger (an no it wasn't for crumbs, he just liked to lick).
Most of the time, if a person imagines sleeping with a pet next to them, they picture a dog or a cat. I didn't; I imagined Edgar. All you had to do was raise up the cover and in he would go. He would crawl down your legs and onto your feet that he loved for some odd reason. He would lick your feet all over and then snuggle with them for the rest of the night.
The most impressing thing about Edgar was the fact that he was a "lap glider." Most people use this term losely and refer to any glider that will sit still for longer than 30 seconds as a "lap glider." Let me clear this up. Edgar was the true definition of a lap glider. He was happy sitting on my arm all day. He was content as long as he was next to me. That made me grow attached to him. Commonly, you could gently rub Edgar's head until he fell asleep on your arm. He would only wake up when he lost his balance. Then, after gaining it back, he would fall right back to sleep.
My favorite memory of Edgar occurred one morning when I felt something on my hand. My hand, cupped beside me so there was space between it and the bed, and several little feet clinging onto it. Before long, Edgar had squirmed under my hand, belly up, so I could rub his belly. This captured my heart. I knew few if no other gliders would do this, and it added to his unique personality. After this experience, Edgar often rolled over to his back if he saw your hand coming. He loved to have his stomach rubbed by me whenever he could.
I wish so much that he was here so I could rub his belly again. He loved it so much as I loved him with all of my heart.
By writing this, I hope you all realize how special Edgar really was. He was a true "lap glider." One couldn't ask for anything more and I wouldn't change him one bit. He lived a happy life and made me happy in the process.
Edgar, I love you, and keep Lenny in line for me till I get there. I promise I will bring you each a nut if you are good.
Rusty
| Posted by: | Jasmine, Spookie_Girl@yahoo.com | | Subject: | I'm so sorry | | When: | 5:39 PM, 07 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 63.78.31.223 |
I'm so sorry to hear about Edgar, Brittney. Please don't blame yourself. It sounds like you did everything you could to give him a caring and loving home. Obese animals are very difficult to put on diets. It's tough to change their metabolisms and cutting down on their food in take can kill them in some cases (ex-cats).
It sounds like Edgar was a very special little guy. You were blessed to have him as a pet. You are also blessed to have a boyfriend like Rusty, who loved your baby as much as you. You are both in my prayers tonight.
| Posted by: | star, teverett | | Subject: | sorry | | When: | 6:44 PM, 07 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 216.214.175.96 |
I am so so sorry for your loss
| Posted by: | Pixie | | Subject: | Terribly sorry | | When: | 12:02 AM, 08 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 64.12.102.41 |
Brittney and Rusty,
I just lost two of my small pets (dwarf hamsters, actually) but the feeling of loss is the same. My prayers are with both of you. Thanks for sharing your lovely memories.
| Posted by: | Lu, frufru33@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:10 AM, 08 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 12.70.67.84 |
Brittney and Rusty, I know you must be feeling so terrible due to this loss. You've got great memories of your babies and that probably keeps you going. Thanks for sharing w/ us. I wish you both the best.
| Posted by: | Jill, skibuny1@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 6:49 PM, 08 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.192.52 |
Brittany and Rusty,
I am so sorry to hear of your loss for Edgar. I can tell that he was a very special glider and was loved very much. You will be in my prayers.
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