 | Posted by: | Leslie, Mrslormann@aol.com | | Subject: | Baby joey update... | | When: | 9:40 PM, 14 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 64.12.104.52 |
Baby's doing fine still. I attempting the Leadbeaters on Bourbon and Maria's advice. Working now on keeping him hydrated and warm.
Still send prayers, we'll need it now more than other!
Bourbon and I have spoken to the breeder and I have decided not to take him back to her despite her offer to refund my money. While I can't deny the temptaion of that offer, my heart won't let me. Only one more week of no sleep!
If you have any questions about who this breeder is or where she is located please e-mail me. I would be happy to deter anyone from ever purchasing ANYTHING from her.
Thank you for all the support. I will continue to lean on it heavily for the next month at least.
Leslie
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| Posted by: | KarenE, KarenElfrank@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:57 PM, 14 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 64.12.104.57 |
I am extremely glad to hear the baby is doing so well ... needless to say there are several of us who truthfully didn't give the baby great odds on making it through the first night. You are obviously already a devoted glider mom. We don't have to tell you that there are still some rough spots ahead.
I agree with you that this is a breeder who should be put out of business one way or the other. At the very least you should report her to the USDA and SPCA. You will probably get more action from the SPCA ... they are very intolerant of people like her.
Keep up the good work and thank you for giving us an update. I have asked about you every time I have been in chat. I would have e-mailed, but I was sure you had your hands full.
| Posted by: | Lu, frufru33@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:51 PM, 14 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 65.34.32.169 |
I'm very pleased and relieved that baby is doing fine. I commend you for everything you've done for this precious little one. Let me tell you, this will be one bonded glider ;). Keep up the good work and keep us posted.
Lu & Winky 
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | none | | When: | 11:33 PM, 14 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.240 |
I was very displeased with the converstaion between the breeder and I, when I told her of my concerns, she was very animant that SHE could hand feed this baby with no problems, and that she could put this baby back in with mom, Leslie asked her , what if mom wouldn't accept her, she felt there would be no problems there,, and offered Leslie back her money, Leslie voivced her concerns and stated she wanted the baby back, but that was not an option for the breeder, she also voiced the concerns of this joey being sold so small to yet someone else, and the breeder did not say , she wouldn't do it. Although Leslie is in a very precarious position, she feels, as we do this glider is in the best of care possible now, if returned this glider may be sold to someone else and the chances again that it may not make it. The breeder stated she got her information from books and the net, however did not know who I was, nor did she know of the ISGA. The brreder insists that leslie asked for this joey this young an a disagreement on that statement ensued, she stated I did not have gaith in Leslie, and that I was sticking my nose into her business, when I told her these joeys that are being pulled are dying, she wasn't the least bit concerned. I informned her although an acceptable practice years ago, it is no longer due to the number of deaths and various health problems. She was more concerned that she didn't know who I was and what I went by, that with the medical facts that have been found. As we have told Leslie, we have all the faith in her, this joey has a chance, if she can keep it alive till those eyes open, his chances will greatly increase. She has a wonderful suppport group, it is however a very trying thing to have to hand feed every 2 hours, and it does take a toll on a person. This we do know, right now we are asking Leslie to do something she was not prepared for. as trying as it is, she is giving it her best shot. For that she needs to be commended, as her first and foremost concern is, the life of this joey. I was not the least bit impressed with a breeder that doesn't continue to research such a new species. I was prepared to go head to head with her, as she had stopped the conversation. For those that Know me, i did mange to contain myself and hit her up with facts , she did not care to hear about. She told me that leslie asked for it, I told her it was the breeders decision. When the conversation was done, The decision was strictly up to Leslie. The decision she made, , she felt was in the best interest of the glider. These breeders convince the person they can do this, they don't give them all the info they need, they don't let them know what all is really entailed. They definitly don't ask any questions to find out if that person is capable of this type of commitment. Not that I don't think Leslie is, but she wasn't given an honest choice. For those that don't like to be told the downsides, please heed them, at least someone cares enough to let you know what they are.
Leslie again to you. I commend your decision, I know it is very hard on you at this time, and don't look to get much easier in the near future. But you know you have a support group that will stand behind you. This first week will be the hardest, hopefully by the end of it, the routine will be down pat, although still not easy, maybe at least workable. Hang in there, you have our numbers, don't ever hesitate to call.. Our prayers and support is with you.
| Posted by: | Kerry, gryphon214@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 12:28 AM, 15 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 64.12.104.178 |
Bourbon,
This is a little off subject, but I'm just VERY curious by now! You keep mentioning how pulling joeys this young used to be an acceptable practice . . . Why was this and what exactly did this entail? And why was it done? Was it just for rejected joeys or did people do it so they would bond better or just so the gliders would breed more often?
Kerry
| Posted by: | Judie, RichJHausmann@cs.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 12:56 AM, 15 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.199.184 |
From what I gather from what Bourbon is saying is that they would pull the babies before the eyes opened so the baby would imprint the one feeding it as it's mother.
However with the genetic trait to bond being so strong for companionship I beleive it is no longer practiced. Also with the some of the known medical and dietary problems this also was a factor of not pulling the wee ones so early. More is known about the effects compaired to many years ago.
There a still some breeders out there that hand raise the tiny ones but usually after the eyes are open. These are called bottled feed babies.
Although I do not approve of their method, being a breeder they are experienced at feeding the wee ones. At least they usually are not being sold until they are weaned.
Thanks for the update Leslie. And Bourbon, I thank you also for your efforts with trying to talk with this breeder even though her ears were closed to new information. Some people do not beleive in change.
Leslie, I do hope the baby makes it as I know you really care about the little one as you are doing the very best. I truly pray that this will have a happy outcome.
| Posted by: | Leslie, Mrslormann@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:54 AM, 15 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 64.12.105.39 |
New pics off baby!!
<a href=http://hometown.aol.com/mrslormann/YoungGlider.html>http://hometown.aol.com/mrslormann/YoungGlider.html</a>
| Posted by: | Robin, 4dbirdie@bellsouth.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 2:21 AM, 15 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 208.61.132.103 |
How precious! As B stated, Leslie, you should be commended for the time and love you are giving your new baby! I'm praying for both of you!
| Posted by: | Kimi, norby@greenepa.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:57 AM, 15 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 209.117.80.91 |
wishin ya both the very best! 
Take those catnaps!
Kimi
| Posted by: | Brittney Jones, chdrfry@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 11:57 AM, 15 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 65.6.222.166 |
Leslie--
I have to commend you on the time and effort you have given to saving this poor baby's life. I have never seen a glider that was so young, so it seems unbelievable to me that a breeder would actually expect someone to raise one that was so young. Please keep us all updated on the progress. You are doing a great job so far
Brittney
Kayla and Lily
| Posted by: | Ashweed, sheena850@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:06 PM, 15 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 216.105.131.65 |
Leslie,
I have been following you and your little joey's progress since Monday, and I am very happy that he is doing better now. I've been being very hopeful about the little glider. And I think it was a good idea to keep him instead of giving him back to the breeder, she probably would have turned right around and sold him to someone else. I think what your doing is very, very, generous of you, some people wouldn't devote all that kind of time and energy to a pet, but there are some, like you, who have a very kind heart towards animals.
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:25 PM, 15 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.199 |
Leslie, oh My Gawd, he is staring to get shape to his nose.. cool, you are doing well he looks great, I do hope he is drinking more now, and I really hope you are catching some nap time in, Keep us posted,
Kerry, What Judie said is correct, they believed at one time, that as with birds, by pulling them it imprints the bonding, the risks are far greater than the outcome, these babies don't always stay sweet, many have still gotten into the nippy stages and the same trust issues apply. But there are so many more consequences that make it unacceptable, we are finding more and more of the self mutilators are hand pulled or rejected joeys, their anti-bodies that they normally would get from mom is not there either. Many of these gliders are very picky eaters, as they don't have mom and dad to teach them how or what is okay, they don't learn the social behaviors , many urinate and deficate in their pouches and nestboxes even as adults. Some can clean themselves as it isn't something that the folks have taught them either. With hand pulled joeys the first year is the most crucial, no need to explain why at this age, and also before weaning, but wwhen their hormones start to kick in, there are also issues, scenting and marking techniques are not taught properly. Their role in a family unit is also lost, some don't make very good parents at all, or know how to react with the opposite sex, they may turn overly aggressive or protective.. or just the opposite and not know the faintest idea what it is they are supposed to do
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