 | Posted by: | Gl!dermommy, Julbabe64@aol.com | | Subject: | ASAP help needed with joeys | | When: | 8:28 AM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.197.42 |
I have a momma and daddy that love to make babies but unfortunately do not like to take care of them. Hercules and Jasmine have just had their 4th set of joeys in 2 years. I have with every set had to take the babies away due to the fact that Jasmine always leaves one out of the bed and it gets cold. I have never taken a baby just for the sake of hand feeding it! Believe me! I have 3 kids of my own and a job. It is hard work..but I don't mind feeding one if I have to. ok
these last two joeys just came oop on Dec. 26th. Jasmine has done very well with these two until this morning!
When I woke up to check on the babies and Jasmine and Hercules I found the body of the baby what was left from what they didn't eat!
Am I not feeding them enough protein in their diet?! I do not have them on the Leadbeaters or anyting like that..but they get mealies, yogurt(plain) scrambled eggs, mixed baby cereal fruits and veggies and nuts.
PLEASE!!! Someone tell me what to do..should I take the other baby from Herculese and Jasmine!?
Should I leave her..I hate to take her so soon oop! I know she needs that nursing from her momma. But I don't want to lose this other little baby!
I do not know if it was the little boy or the little girl that they killed. They had one of each!
please e-mail me and let me know!
Glider Love to All
Julie
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| Posted by: | Barb, blooprints@yahoo.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:49 AM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 63.178.66.137 |
My heart truly goes out to you. I have one mom that did the same thing - although she did not eat joeys. She'd take care of them for awhile then leave them out to get cold and die. She did this four times. The last time I pulled the nearly dead babies and had Sugar Pouch who is experienced care for them, but they died anyway. I am about to conclude this is failure to thrive or something like SIDS. I have had many other pairs, and all are fed the same way...This never happened with any of the others. I always make sure my moms get extra protein and extra calcium for the growing joeys. I don't know what to tell you except that I understand and I am sorry. I wish I could tell you what to do. At this point the humane thing to do would be to neuter the male. Please feel free to email me if you wish.
| Posted by: | Mary/Beck, intr01dc@frank.mtsu.edu | | Subject: | none | | When: | 12:28 PM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.82.53 |
Your gliders need 33 % protien and a cal  h ratio of 2:1 as well as various tupes of vitamins in their diet. Often times when a breeding pair ets the baby its because they are lacking someting in their diet.
Pit the gliders on a balanced proven diet for their own health and for the ehalth of their babies. In some cases it can take many months to see a change if their bodies were severly lacking.
The BML diet is a very good proven and complete balanced diet for your gliders. It does not need anything added for pregnant mothers.
Try using this diet for your gliders.
| Posted by: | Gl!dermommy, Julbabe64@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 2:06 PM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.193.56 |
Thanks for the imput. I just need to know now..should I take the other baby tonight when mom and dad go out to eat? I will tonight start the BML diet and not stray from it again!
Thanks for everything!
Glider Love to All
Julie
| Posted by: | Gliderlover, Angie_nightgirl@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 5:46 PM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
This is a tought situation. I guess since the parents cannabilized the other joey it would probably be best to remove the surviving joey. I really dislike advising anyone to remove a joey from its parents, but I dont know what will happen to the joey if it stays with its parents. If this continues I think it may be best to nueter the male so that they cannot have any more joeys. I dont think diet is the problem in this case, but changing back to the bml diet is a good idea. Also feed them lots of insects (that helped my couples when they were mating to have healthy joeys). I give them females as many crickets as they will eat in a night and a few mealworms as treats. Some nights the females will eat up to 20 crickets (expensive but worth it). Good luck
Angie
| Posted by: | Gl!dermommy, Julbabe64@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 6:09 PM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 152.163.213.74 |
Many Many thanks for the imput. I believe that I shall try taking the surviving baby tonight. I just don't want to take any chances!
Glider Love to All
Julie
| Posted by: | Debbie, delliott@tulane.edu | | Subject: | none | | When: | 7:12 PM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 216.227.111.97 |
I would advise contacting Bourbon or Irish Creme or someone like that before you act if at all possible. I don't feel comfortable giving out someone else's phone number, but there was one posted very recently...
| Posted by: | Gl!dermommy, Julbabe64@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 7:35 PM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 152.163.213.68 |
I talked to Bourbon on the phone today and she was such a wonderful help! I have my mommy and daddy on BML! And we shall see what happens.
I do appreciate everything!
Glider Love to All
Julie
| Posted by: | Rachel2, SugarGMommy@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 8:13 PM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.196.41 |
I am wondering why no one has suggested having the male neutered. Maybe your gliders just aren't cut out to be parents. I wouldn't risk any more joeys! How many more have to die? Just a thought.
| Posted by: | Kim, gliderlove@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:14 PM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 24.164.7.166 |
I agree Rachel, I was thinking the same thing but Barb did suggest neutering the male since this breeding/killing thing is kinda cruel.
| Posted by: | Gl!dermommy, Julbabe64@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:48 PM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.200.26 |
No no ya'll..this is the first time that the parents have done this. And after talking to Bourbon on the phone today we both agree that I am the bad parent here..and am not providing the proper nutrition. I have however learned a lesson from this and no more home made glider food for Herc and Jazzy..they are now on BML and fruits and veggies along with their little girl Zoey that I have kept for myself cause Ididn't have the heart to trust anyone with a home for my precious baby! I just love listening to her chatter with me in the mornings!
Thanks ya'll
love
Julie
| Posted by: | Kim, gliderlove@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:18 PM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 24.164.7.166 |
All the sets were rejected? or at least one from all the sets? Just this last one was killed? Did I get it all down right?
Im glad you're on a better diet anyways- thats why the rejections/death(s).
| Posted by: | Gl!dermommy, Julbabe64@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:35 PM, 29 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 152.163.213.51 |
yep you got it straight. lol it is hard to keep it all straight huh. We will see..I may have to get him neutered.
thanks
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:48 AM, 30 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.251 |
For starts I never agreed she was a bad mommy or even insinuated it, we did however talk about the diet and we agreed that it was not adequet enough for all to thrive with. Now as for pulling him, i suggested getting her switched over ASAP, and with the added nutrients that maybe mom will be getting what she needed to help her out with this joey, she is watching him closely, and hopefully everything will be okay. the prob with bad diets is, that they are 1. common
2. that they can help one survive but maybe not the added pull for the joeys, therefore mom will do what she has to to survive.
as for neutering, we never even discussed that, as it is a personal choice, if this can be fixed with a proper diet, then so be it, this glider is not "pumping them out at a quick rate"
We also discussed that this joey although it may be able to be saved, that on the other hand it may not. So pulling before mom rejects it, would seem a bit useless. She is prepared in case she needs to though.. I do wish her luck and have her in my prayers. With a decent diet we hope this is last time she will have to go through this. To answer the previous q, she has managed to save one of each litter, she is apt at handfeeding if needed, but lets hope she won't have to this time.
| Posted by: | Gl!dermommy, Julbabe64@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 6:58 AM, 30 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 152.163.213.46 |
Thanks Bourbon...you are so wonderful!!! I want to let everyone who is praying for my little Hollie..she made it through the night with her momma, and all is well in the cage it seems!
Thanks for all the prayers that went up last night. We appreciate it so very very much!
Glider Love to All
Hercules, Jasmine
& Baby Hollie
| Posted by: | Elizabeth, d-green3@ti.com | | Subject: | advise | | When: | 12:50 PM, 02 Jan 2001 | | IP: | 206.64.82.228 |
I think you shold nuder the male. A way to know if thier a male or female is the male has a bump on the top of his head. Also the the male has a strong scent when he relieves hiself,until you get him nuder he'll have that scent. I have 4 sugargliders, they about 3/4 to a cup of vegatables, and a cup of oats, and wheats.
Also I know its difficult to take care of a baby joey,but you don,t need to take the chance of the parents eating the joey. The parents might of thought it was a mouse. Sugargliders eat small mice, and insects too. If you do decide to take care of the other joey, get a tiny stuffed animal for the little one to climb on like he, or she would do to his parents.
| Posted by: | Maria, dmeexotics@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 4:23 PM, 02 Jan 2001 | | IP: | 152.163.204.194 |
Gliders aren't horses and they don't need oats and wheat. Please check out the diets link and get your gliders on a good diet.
<a href=http://www.angelfire.com/nb/sugarglider/diet/index.html>http://www.angelfire.com/nb/sugarglider/diet/index.html</a>
Sugar gliders would never mistake their baby for a mouse. They look and smell completely different from each other.
| Posted by: | Sheila, kwillson5@home.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:30 AM, 03 Jan 2001 | | IP: | 65.3.3.164 |
This fall I have had to take care of three rejected joeys. The first two were from a very small mom and were brother and sister and they survived. They were about two weeks pre-mature. The third was from Gizmo who has rejected two joeys. The reason I am bringing all this up is because of some thoughts I had on the matter. These joeys were from different parents and I raised them the same. This was my experience: A couple of days after the joeys were born on the brother sister pair, the mama (Jules) started making this tst tst noise. If it happens again, I will try and get a recording and post it on my site. I would look into the pouch and see her push the female away. After a week, she left the female on the bottom of the cage crying. I was fortunate to find her. The female was smaller than the male. After a few weeks I started supplementing the female for about 5 days and compared her and the male after five days and she was really a lot larger than him, so I began to supplement him too. At six weeks I took them with me on a nine hour car trip and left the parents behind. Up until that time the female fought with mom over the feeding thing and was badly scratch, which eventually healed. Once I took them from the parents, and fed them about every four hours, they prospered.
The second joey that was rejected was born to Gizmo. Gizmo had rejected a joey in Aug. and we didn't know if it was due to a birth defect or a yeast in her pouch. That first one starved to death, but they didn't eat it, only ate off one leg. This is what I don't know - if one leg was born that way, or the parents did it. The only reason I suspected a birth defect, because this male joey was born with a white tipped tail. Anyway, the only way to find out was to have her get pregnant again, which she did right away and had a single joey. This one was born on time. Two days after she was born - really oop, head and all, I started hearing the tst tst noise again. Gizmo had also made this same noise the first time around as Jules did too. I knew she was rejecting the joey again. There has been very little success being able to hand raise a joey at this age, so I decided to do the same thing with her that I did with the other two joeys that belonged to Jules. At two days old I fed her twice a day. I would feed her in the morning and night, right before mom and dad woke up. I mixed about 1 t of puppy milk with 1/8 t BML starting out. After about 4 weeks she started developing a couple of bald spots. I didn't know if this was yeast from the mom's pouch or just the parents starting to fool around again and the baby getting in the way. Anyway, about two days later I completely removed her from parents and put her in a incubated situation, still giving her the milk 4 times and leadbeaters 2 times a day. As a result of all of this nurturing to this joey, she is now 7 weeks old and is very healthy and is the tamest glider we have ever seen. She has never crabbed at me. I just wanted to tell everyone this story because our "Baby" who will go to her new home next week was thrown on the bottom of the cage 6 times in 5 weeks. Each time we would feed her and stick her back in. She would nurse on her mom during the day while her mom wasn't watching - hehe. It has been so cold in Ok(temps in the 20's) and we have had snow on the ground for 2 weeks. I don't have the ability to keep the glider warm even in a sports bra. Sometimes I feel when people suspect a glider being rejected they are to quick to remove it. There are two dangers I see - first that you run the risk of the baby being eaten, second that the mama's milk will dry because you are supplementing and breeding will begin again while joey is still around. I really think on many occasions, but not all, you have a better chance of a joey surviving if you let mama and daddy keep it warm while you supplement. It is my observance that when the joey "BABY" was thrown out, that we had missed a feeding or were late on one. It seemed everytime she became week or dehydrated, they wanted her out. If I would keep on a good feeding schedule for three or four days with no forgotten feedings - no rejection. By all this I came to the conclusion that when the mom won't nurse the joey for reasons of not wanting too, deformities (birth defects), first time mom syndromes, wanting to mate again or whatever, the baby becomes weak and becomes the victim. As long as you can keep the baby healthy by supplementing, the joey is much better off. I did use puppy milk replacer which made them a little chubby at times, so Marsupial Milk is probably the best which Clara sells here on this site. I hope everyone benefited from this who are nervous about their gliders having a joey for the first time. And for those who wanted to know - we have appts next week for yeast check cause Gizmo is pregnant again with a single. Oh yes, I wanted everyone to see our precious little "Baby" that is what we call her. We will be very sad to let her go. I have tears as I write this. I know she will be very happy in her new home.
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