 | Posted by: | Robin, 4dbirdie@bellsouth.net | | Subject: | Grasshoppers | | When: | 10:03 AM, 14 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 208.61.132.14 |
Are they safe for the little darlings? Any ideas on other bugs that are safe that she may like as well other than crickets and mealies?
Thanks!
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| Posted by: | KarenE, KarenElfrank@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:30 AM, 14 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.193.181 |
Bourbon is our resident "bug" expert ... she spends hours catching them for her little ones ;)I know that moths and skeeter eaters are safe. I have also heard of people feeding roaches as long as they know they are safe from pesticides.
Personally, I have only feed crickets and mealies.
Try turning on your porch light and catching the moths that fly around them. I understand they really love those.
| Posted by: | Robin, 4dbirdie@bellsouth.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 11:01 AM, 14 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 208.61.132.14 |
Thanks. I've tried that with no luck. It's been a little cold here for that. I caught a cricket a few days ago for her first, but haven't seen any since. But there's an awful lot of grasshoppers. If they are safe and good for her, she'll be eating like a queen tonite!
| Posted by: | The Sugar Pouch, the_sugar_pouch@hotmail.com | | Subject: | Pesticides | | When: | 3:08 PM, 14 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.4.254.137 |
I don't know if I would feed my little ones critters / bugs that I have found outside, as you never know what they have been into. Being that pesticides and other chemicals are used to kill / control insects outside, you may be giving your gliders "yuckies" through them. 
Personally, I buy my bugs through suppliers that use no pesticides on there insects, and gut load them with plenty of calcium. (most pets supply stores will do this also)
| Posted by: | Gliderlover | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:43 PM, 14 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
The Sugar Pouch, I definitely agree!! It is very important to get your crickets from a proper supplier (pet stores or insect breeders). Gut-loading is also very important. I use calcium fortified cricket quencher (gel water-supplement) and a flukers gut-loading cricket food. And for mealworms I use a new mealworm bedding (from Flukers I think) that is edible and calcium fortified. This way your insects wont be contaminated with pesticides and they will be highly nutritious! Crickets and mealworms have a higher phosphorus level then they do a calcium level so the gutloading will help bring the calcium level up. ;)
| Posted by: | Liz R, tabetha5@home.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 12:57 PM, 15 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.4.252.213 |
I feed my girls grasshopper when I can. We live in SD, so they are all froze now but the loved them all summer. I only gave them 2 every other night and,I have seen no adverse affects. I got the hoppers from a farm quite a ways away from towns, because I know they spray for bugs in town.
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | none | | When: | 7:34 PM, 15 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.86.176 |
GliderLover -
On the 'gel/water product' you're using for the crix... You may want to do a bit of research on whichever product you are using. Ive heard some terrible facts due to prolonged use as a water supplement.
I would suggest offering carrots and orange slices instead of the routine potatoes to the crix. We go through 10-14 thousand crix a week here - and they do wonderfully well.
Just a thought.
| Posted by: | Gliderlover | | Subject: | none | | When: | 8:52 PM, 15 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
Irishcreme
I haven't heard of any problems with the cricket water replacer. Is there something you have heard? I do leave out lots of fresh vegetables for the crickets also, but I prefer the cricket water gel to regular water because it is calcium fortified and drown-free. It is also a lot less messy. Do you feed a gut loading feed also, or do you just give them potato, orange and carrot? I prefer to use a cricket feed which is designed for gut-loading and has the proper nutrients. Its hard to find a good cricket feed, but the best kinds are designed with the crickets natural diet in mind and that have a lot of added vitamins and minerals. Thanks for your suggestions 
10-14 thousand crickets! Eeek how many gliders do you have?
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | none | | When: | 3:01 AM, 16 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.123 |
Okay, as far as the moths, I have no problem with those, skeeter eaters and june bugs, mine gets those any time I can catch them, and there is a trick i will explain.. using index finger place it quickly on one wing as the other wing is fluttering use your thum or middle finger depending which wing you have to pin the fluttering wing between your fingers. A little practice, and none will get away.. As for the crickets /grasshoppers etc from outside, unless you live in the country way out where they don't spray I would say NO...as you don't know what is on the ground and where they have come from, could be from a neighbors house that just sprayed,,etc...
As for Roaches...and flys.. well there I would also have to say NO, they themselves carry loads of diseases and germs, none of which is healthy for man or beast.
Irish cream? she has no gliders LOL just kidding but she also has those lizards and reptile type of friends.. LOL i would give them ANYTHING they ask for .. but my hand
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | B-they dont bite hard-promise! | | When: | 8:30 PM, 16 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.88.47 |
GliderLover- I have *heard* BUT dont have any clinical research data that the substance they use to gel the moisture (depending on the individual product ingredients) can have lasting effects - as a build-up in the 'end predator' may occur through long term use.
ie - the crix eat the stuff, but havent digested it completely before being consumed by another creature. Therefore, the creature has the undigested gel in its belly and has to process it itself.
now - IF the ingredient used to gel the moisture is say... silicone based - thats not a completely digestible substance. Will the 'end predator' retain any of that in their system? And what part is digestible - is it safe, or possibly toxic when the body breaks it down? If a build-up could occur, what would the safe levels be?
These are just a few of many concerns I have about *any* new products that come onto the market. Im "in doubt" - so "I dont".
For a protein source we use 2 parts GutLoad, 2 parts fortified baby cereal and 1 part Carnation non-fat dried milk... We also offer a cut up orange and carrots for moisture - no direct water source. (Axe the potatoes - they rot too quickly and stink to high He##.)
As for my gliders, I only have 6. (+ 2 on the way)
Curious about the scaly comment? <a href=http://www.dachiu.com/>http://www.dachiu.com/</a> (Yes, I care for all of the animals here - + a few not listed... one of my passions in life.)
| Posted by: | Gliderlover, Angie_nightgirl@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:18 PM, 16 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
Hi!!
I can see why the cricket quencher could pose as a potential problem if the contents are not digestible when the glider eats crickets with the gel in their stomach. The ingredients to the Flukers Laboratories Cricket Quencher is:
Polyacrylamide copolymer and calcium
Is Polyacrymide copolymer digestible for animals? I dont even know what it is
Wow that's a lot of reptiles on your site. I have a veiled chameleon, but thats it for me on the reptile end of things. My brother is a bearded dragon breeder, they are neat creatures.
If the ingredients in the cricket quencher arent suitable then I will have to give your method a try. Thank you for sharing!
Angie ;)
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | can you guess??? | | When: | 11:38 PM, 16 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.85.146 |
Well, I can tell you exactly what it is - but the details of the particular form they use are their secret. Unfortunately, without clinical data from a particular company detailing ratios - The general public is at a loss.
polyacrylamide -- Organic Chemistry. (CH2CHCONH2)x, a white, solid, water-soluble polymer based on acrylamide; used as a thickening or suspending agent, adhesive additive, or food additive, and in biochemistry in the study of biological compounds. Also, polyacrylamide gel.
OR - **poly- a combining form meaning: 1. many, much.many, much. 2. polymerous.polymerous.
acrylamide -- Organic Chemistry. CH2=CHCONH2, colorless, odorless crystals that melt at 84.5°C; soluble in water, alcohol, and acetone; stable at room temperature, but can polymerize readily while melting; used in dye synthesis, ore processing, sewage treatment, and in permanent press fabrics. **
copolymer -- [k päl´i mr] Materials Science. a polymer that is composed of polymer chains made up of two or more chemically different repeating units that can be in different sequences. Organic Chemistry. any polymer produced by the simultaneous polymerization of two or more dissimilar monomers.
OR **co- a prefix meaning "with" or "together," as in coaxial, cohesion.
polymer [päl´ mr] Organic Chemistry. a large molecule formed by the union of at least five identical monomers; it may be natural, such as cellulose or DNA, or synthetic, such as nylon or polyethylene; polymers usually contain many more than five monomers, and some may contain hundreds or thousands of monomers in each chain. **
| Posted by: | Mary, intr01dc@frank.mtsu.edu | | Subject: | Irish Cream | | When: | 12:09 AM, 17 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.80.108 |
It could be that i am really tired..but I have read your last post many times and it is just too complicated for my mind to figure out. I appreciate all your techincal skills but could you please help me out some on this one.
Are you saying the stuff would be ahrd or impossioble to digest? Meaning it should not be given to crickets that will be given to gliders (or other animals)?
I currently only feed mealworms but I plan on trying crickets again. One of the things I heard was good was to use that gel stiff as their water.
So I plan on using this post to help me out when I get the crickets.
Thanks
| Posted by: | Gliderlover, Angie_nightgirl@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:52 PM, 17 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
Hi Irishcreme!
I also dont understand much of what you've said, maybe you can simplify it a little. The big question would be "Is the cricket water gel good or bad?" Thank you for your help!
Angie ;)
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:24 PM, 17 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.85.155 |
Ok, The easiest answer is – I don’t honestly know if its safe to use or not.
A polyacrylamide is a combination of colorless, odorless crystals that melt at 84.5°C. They are soluble in water, alcohol, and acetone and stable at room temperature. They are used mainly in dye synthesis, ore processing, sewage treatment, and in permanent press fabrics.
A copolymer is a large molecule formed by chains made up of two or more chemically different repeating units. It may be natural - like DNA, or a synthetic material.
The main concern I have is that there is no clinical data available. Is it natural? Is it synthetic? Would it really make a difference which it is? Yes, it would. Cocaine is natural – and not healthy. BUT synthetic materials aren’t digestible. Could or would a particular synthetic material be passed through the system or be retained within the system?
For myself, the possible health risks are too great to take a chance.
I cannot say that its “unsafe” to use this type of product - I have no clinical data to prove it. I cannot say it is “safe” to use this type of product – for the same reason.
Im open to and would love to receive any information concerning the suspended solutions that are now available. BUT for now - the doubts I have due to the unanswered questions are enough to make me err on the side of caution and not use this type of product.
Carrots and oranges are a natural, safe source of moisture. In addition to moisture they also offer essential vitamins and minerals which in turn improve the overall “Gut Loading” process.
Also (not that it would really matter) a few carrots and oranges are cheaper than the ‘suspended solutions’ that are available – So there’s nothing to lose; but a sense of security to be gained.
The choice is entirely up to you to make.
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | ref. : Live cricket husbandry | | When: | 7:48 AM, 29 Nov 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.89.100 |
bump -
| Posted by: | Lu, frufru33@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 8:33 AM, 29 Nov 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.181.81 |
My vet recommended that I use it. That's pretty valid, right? But yeah, it's better to be on the safe side.
| Posted by: | Jim M, dr.goodnight@att.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:45 PM, 29 Nov 2000 | | IP: | 12.75.96.7 |
The one thing that Irish Creme left out and probably because it is unknown is whether Gliders produce Phase 1 and 2 enzymes that could cleave or breakdown organic products, such as polyacrylamides. What is interesting is the fact that many are asking if it is digestable. If it isn't, it will probably be passed fecally, especially if it is a Poly (meaning many and usually big) acrylamide. You have to be concerned with organic molecules to be brokendown in the body into free radicals. Free radicals can cause a vast amount of damage in the body, especially to DNA. There are many ingredients that we, as humans, ingest and do not know what long term effects it has. One good example is the dye issue, such as Yellow #5. Does it cause testicular cancer? Who knows. One thing we do underestimate is our bodies and it's mechanisms to take care of certain toxic substances. If you feel it is a threat to your glider's health, do not give it to them. Catching "bugs" outside for your gliders carry a risk of having pesticide residue in their system as well. What doesn't kill them makes them stronger! Finally, clinical studies aren't always correct. There are always flaws in the study that make it look good until somebody(s) or something dies from it. I have seen it enough, especially when ther is a push to get published or there is pressure from the FDA, etc. Keep the info flowing!!!
| Posted by: | Judie, RichJHausmann@cs.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 3:07 AM, 30 Nov 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.197.156 |
When feeding live insects from outside there is a risk of unknown parasites being transfered to the animals that are feeding off of them. It is suggested that a fecal float be done every 3 months to ensure your glider has not picked up an unknown host.
As for the jell..I would not use it. Use the fresh carrots and oranges for the added moisture.
Change them out before they become old.
Irish Cream....I cannot help myself to not ask, but how does one use 10 thousand crickets a week? Do you by chance have a reptile farm?
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | Judie | | When: | 11:17 PM, 30 Nov 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.89.48 |
uhhhh... kinda. They taste wonderfully yummy mixed in strawberry yogurt too!
^
jk. - Theres a link to all my creatures in an earlier post. Its a reptile "house" here... from one end to the other. hehe...
| Posted by: | Barb, blooprints@yahoo.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 5:19 AM, 03 Dec 2000 | | IP: | 63.178.68.174 |
When I moved to my current location about 5 years ago, the neighbors never took care of their yards, so I was positive no spraying was going on. The grasshoppers line the fence, so I'd swat them and put them in a gallon container - collecting as many as I could. Since I hate the creepy crawlies, I'd shake the jug to partially numb the hoppers so that I could get them out and had feed the gliders. I don't do it now or for the last 4 years because the new neighbosrs take care of the yard and the g/hopper population decreased considerably (and I know they do spray). A friend's gliders love moths, so I managed to catch one one night. I held it outside my wild caughts' cage and you never saw a glider fly so fast (from inside his house) - he had snatched the moth in a split second and it was GONE! It was amazing! I recycle the fruit leftovers from the gliders to the mealworms bin. Their refuse goes to the composter outside, so sometimes I recover mealworms from the composter - never had any problem feeding those to the gliders.
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