 | Posted by: | Tina Marie, TorCsena@uswest.net | | Subject: | HERPCARE; CRICKET DUST? | | When: | 10:50 PM, 22 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.225.91.73 |
Has any one heard of this before? A guy at the exotic pet store said he knew a breeder of gliders, and he owned a glider at one point and time hisself. He said that the guy uses this HERPCARE cricket dust for vitamins for the gliders. I bought it. It says that you can either use it to gutload crickets, or you can dust your freeze dryed crickets with it before feeding it to them. It says it is high in calcium and low in phosphorus. it has calcium, salt, calcium pantothenate, choline, iron, potassium, magnesium, manganese, zinc, Vitamin a, vitamin d3, vitamin b12, menadione, beta carotene, ascorbic acid, thiamine, riboflavin, niacin, folic acid, pyrodoxine, biotin, arginine, and lysine in it. If you know what any of that is.
The ingredients list is, Precipiated calcium carbonate, dried kelp, choline bitartrate, ferrous, sulfate, beta carotene, ascorbic acid, niacin, manganous oxide, magnesium oxide, potassum chloride, dl-alpha tocopheryl acetate, thiamine mononitrate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, calcium pantothenate, zinc oxide, vitamin b12 supplement, bht, folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, ethoxyquin, cholecalciferol, vitamin a acetate and biotin.
IF there is any one who sees any thing in there that my babys shouldnt be having.. PLEASE let me know. I used it for the first time last night, i did as it instructed, and i put the crickets in it and coated them with it, then fed to my gliders. They were very active and happy last night! Playing lots, was nice to see them as themselves again. I am thinking they were lacking vitamins in their diet. I hadnt yet given them any since i got them. Please let me know if youve heard of this.
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| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | I wouldnt, if I were you... | | When: | 12:24 AM, 23 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.85.121 |
Ok, for starters... this vitamin supplement is designed specifically for reptiles and their needs.
BUT ALSO - The Vitamin A in this product is a synthetic Vitamin A. ("vitamin a acetate ")
This is a BIG no-no... And I can tell you why. 
Synthetic Vitamin A is retained by the body and not passed through like a natural Vitamin A would be. These VitA levels can reach toxic levels within the body and cause terminal illnesses.
In addition to the synthetic vitamin A they also include a natural form that comes from the beta carotene. Double dose. 1 natural and 1 synthetic.
Its normally recommended that these multivitamins are given to reptiles; but NOT on a daily basis. Calcium supplements are part of a daily routine.
| Posted by: | Tina Marie, TorCsena@uswest.net | | Subject: | then what? | | When: | 12:36 AM, 23 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.225.91.73 |
Then what do i give them for vitamins? This was right next to rep cal on the shelf... is rep cal the only kind of vitamin i can give them? Or is this something i can give them, just not every day? Is it something i can add to their leadbeaters as vitamins?
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | none | | When: | 11:38 PM, 23 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.85.131 |
RepCal is not a multivitamin; Its a calcium & vitamin D3 supplement.
What does your routine diet consist of? You can easily make a few changes there that would rotate different vitamins and minerals...
| Posted by: | Tina Marie, TorCsena@uswest.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 2:41 AM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.225.93.216 |
They eat fruits and veggies every night, they eat the modified leadbeaters recipe every night, they have sunflower seeds on occasion, and they have the glider nectar lori 2 - 3 times a week. Oh yeah, and they have 2 - 3 crickets each a night.
| Posted by: | Gliderlover, Angie_nightgirl@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 3:14 AM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
Tina Marie, your diet sounds well balanced, you shouldn't need any other supplements besides the rep-cal in the leadbeaters. The Nekton Lori is also a supplement with many vitamins, so anything more would probably be over-supplementing.
Angie 
| Posted by: | Tina Marie, TorCsena@uswest.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 3:39 AM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 207.225.94.187 |
WOW OK THANK YOU!
| Posted by: | Tina Marie, TorCsena@uswest.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 3:41 AM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 207.225.94.187 |
So i cant use this herp cricket dust instead of rep cal? It was sold next to rep cal in the store. Is the big thing with the rep cal, is the calcium in it? Is that really all the vitamin they need, is calcuim? Other than that i dont need to worry about any other vitamins for them? Ive been worryed all this time thinking i needed to give them vitamins, and i have nto been. I dont give them repcal in their leadbeaters mix. I have dusted their crickets twice now, and on both nights they have been highly active and even more curious and outgoing than normal, i would think this would be a GOOD sign that it is something they like.. and their bodys are liking....
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | no. | | When: | 10:46 AM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.86.47 |
You cannot use ANY multivitamin in place of RepCal - simply because that is not what it is.
If you dont use RepCal in their leadbeaters mix - what do you use for a calcium source? Which recipe are you using for leadbeaters?
Could their recent inactivity could be because the calcium levels werent adequate in their diet?
| Posted by: | Tina Marie, TorCsena@uswest.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 2:15 PM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.225.93.188 |
Their leadbeaters recipe is apple juice, wheat germ, baby cereal, egg, honey.
| Posted by: | Mary/Beck, intr01dc@frank.mtsu.edu | | Subject: | Leadbeaters | | When: | 4:30 PM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.82.114 |
Yoy are only using half the recipie forBourbonsd leadbeaters. IF you were to add the rest of the ingredients to the leadbeaters then your gliders would be on a well balanced diet and they would not need any extras. Your diet have very little protien and calcium..things gliders need a lot of. Adding vitamines will not help them...you need to fix the actual diet.
| Posted by: | Tina Marie, TorCsena@uswest.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 6:48 PM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 207.225.95.92 |
They eat ALOT of protien! They have crickets, and eggs! I did not put all the things down that i put in the leadbeaters.. at least it didnt seem like i did.. maybe that is all i used...  Dont worry pay day is thursday and i am taking myself down to the pet store for REP - CAL!!! i looked up the bourbons recipe today ! and got it ready to go..
| Posted by: | Tina Marie, TorCsena@uswest.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 8:14 PM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.225.91.75 |
hahahaha i figured it was something like that ! It does happen alot! I wanted to mention that the gliders also have their nectar lori, which is GREAT for them... i knew i was leaving something out. This is the same diet they have been on for 3 years.. and they are very healthy gliders, so i dont see me NOT giving them rep cal or anything else is going to hurt them. (least till payday) Like i have said before, they have fruits and veggies each day, and now because of all the advice from here they have their leadbeaters every night as well, instead of every other night. they have what used to be 2 crickets each a night... now have 3-4 crickets a night each, i give them egg on occasion, sunflower seed on occasion, and they have yogurt 2-3 times a week which has calcium in it as well. they have their nectar lori 3-4 times a week. It has some kind of vitamin supplement in it as well. I have been dusting their crickets lightly with the cricket duster because i have recieved many emails stating that it is ok to do so. And i have spoken with a pet shop owner who has a breeder who buys the stuff from him, and uses it on their crickets. It is the same stuff they gut load the crickets with, so either way the glider would be consuming it, weather it be inside the crickett of on the outside of the crickett, and it is loaded with calcium.
| Posted by: | Mary/Beck, intr01dc@frank.mtsu.edu | | Subject: | Protien | | When: | 8:37 PM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.82.114 |
With the Bourbons leadbeaters you can feed 3 or 4 crickets a night and have enough protien..however the only protien in your leadbeaters is the egg and the baby cereal...neither one of these is enough for gliders. Some veggies have protein in them but its not a lot of protien. The nector lori is fine but what good does it do to give added vitamines when they don't get enough protien to begin with.
Your leadbeaters has very little protien in it so 3 or 4 crickets a day is not nearly enough. You would have to give a lot more crickets per glider per day to have 33% protien in their diet.
Just because a glider appears to be ehalthy that doesn't really mean anything. HLP can take several years to develope. The gliders are getting some calcium but over time the body will need more calcium and will take it from their bones. Over more time their bones will start to desinegrate and your glider will loose activity in the back legs. This process can take many years if a glider is getting some calcium but not enough.
One of the first signs is inactivty. You said yourself that you gave your gliders the crickeys with herpcare and they were more active. That shows right there that they are lacking soemthing in their diet.
Bad diets don't kill gliders instantly. We have all seen people post here and elsewhere that the glider died of HLP or some other dietary problem.
The first thing they always say is well I don't understand they were on the same diet for 2, 3, 4, 5 years and they always seemed healthy.
| Posted by: | Tina Marie, TorCsena@uswest.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 11:22 PM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 207.225.93.172 |
They get their protien from thier leadbeaters, crickets, and egg every day. I feed them all three things, as well as nuts on occasion, which is also protien. I was thinking if any thing i was giving them too much protien. They are however seeming to lack on the calcuim, you are right, i will be getting them some rep cal on thursday. Until then, i am giving them yogurt with their nectar lori in it, their leadbeaters, egg, cricket, as well as veggies and fruits. This should be ok until thursday when i get paid and can get them some rep cal. Heck , i will give them more crickets tonight than usual and maybe some extra egg, but they will fill up on all this and have no room for their fruits and veggies at this rate ! So, when i do get their rep cal, and begin to make bourbons leadbeaters, i just continue with the rest of their diet as i have been, is that correct? And i wont need any more supplements or any thing added to their diet? Just the rep cal?
| Posted by: | Mary/Beck, intr01dc@frank.mtsu.edu | | Subject: | Ok | | When: | 12:32 AM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.80.163 |
Ok I am not trying to confuse you.....Gliders need 33% protien in their diet. I understand that you are giving them protien but you are not feeding them enough. I do agree with you though you can wait until thursday since they have been on this diet for 3 years a few days will not hurt....but if you were not changing diets I would tell you to reaally up the protuen and calcium.
Now you are changing to bourbons diet..is that correct? I believe it is. Bourbons diet is balanced and does not need any extras. Make the recipie from her page it has repcal in it..it has all the stuff you are using now plus some other stuff that gliders need. Then you feed one tbsp of that leadbeaters every single night. With that serve one tbsp fruit and one tbsp veggies. Also give 3-4 crickets a day like you are doing. All of this will be per glider. If thats too much or too little then you can feed a little less or more the next night until you get it to the right ammount for your gliders.
With that diet you will not need to add anything at all. You can still give the glideraid or yogurt as treats but they are not needed.
| Posted by: | Tina Marie, TorCsena@uswest.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:27 AM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.225.92.130 |
Yes, i plan on changing to the bourbons leadbeaters recipe. IT TRULY SOUNDS THE BEST ! So when i get paid, taht is the route i will take with them!!!! And it seems that every thing else im doing will just remain the same.. guess i will have to cut my losses with this herp care stuff.... cuz there would be no point in giving it to them. Bummer. But, what ever is best for my lil guys is all that matters!
| Posted by: | Mary/Beck, intr01dc@frank.mtsu.edu | | Subject: | Reptiles | | When: | 5:03 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.81.80 |
Try finding someone who has reptiles and give it to them...maybe there is a reptile resuce near you that would like it as a donation.
| Posted by: | Tina Marie, TorCsena@uswest.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 6:10 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 207.225.94.82 |
Good idea!
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