 | Posted by: | Rocki'sMom, babygirl@ccp.com | | Subject: | Kitara, thanks for sharing | | When: | 10:30 PM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.60.86.90 | | Locked: | This discussion was locked by a moderator. |
Kitara, thanks for sharing with me about your first glider. I would love to hear more about your rescues as well.....pointers, tips etc; The other thread was closed, I guess it was misunderstood, but I thought we had cleared everything up. I hope you know, I mean no offense to you and would love to learn more from you about rescues.
Thanks,
Carolyn
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| Posted by: | Moderator | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:45 PM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.147.186.90 |
This thread is perfectly fine as a discussion of bonding. Have fun guys! :-)
| Posted by: | Rocki'sMom, babygirl@ccp.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:54 PM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.60.86.90 |
Moderator, thanks!!! ;)
| Posted by: | Pockets, tinytracks@cac.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 12:05 AM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 209.44.14.96 |
Carolyn & Kitara
I just want to sneak this in -
Charging $$ for rescues is a very smart idea.
It not only helps the other rescued  's but it also weeds out those who cannot afford to own them!
Many Thanks to both of you for the kindness you show to the all the homeless "Little People" who find themselves in your tender-loving care
| Posted by: | Gliderlover, Angie_nightgirl@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 12:45 AM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
Pockets!! Agreed! I would be afraid to give away any glider, anyone who thought they were cute would take them. If they are their regular selling price ($100-$200) there is a better chance that a person will research and be prepared before they spend a lot of money on buying a glider. People have to understand how much money it takes to properly accomodate your glider. I know I spend at least $50.00 a week on my gliders (often more). I buy them new toys almost every day LOL!!
Angie ;)
| Posted by: | Kitara, fuzzybabies@juno.com | | Subject: | Dont get me goin again!! | | When: | 12:58 AM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.31.46.240 |
When you take on the responsibility of rescuing gliders YOU are responsible to care for them and provide what they need no matter what the cost, however that does not mean that glider is responsible to give you that money back!!End this NOW before I get P ed off again!!
Kitara
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | I must say.. | | When: | 2:06 AM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.163 |
That I too also believe that gliders should not be given away; however, there are some seriously special conditions here, that I find a bit confusing.
1. I didn't take in my first rescue till I had glider for 2 years, and was well aware of the money, time and health issues involved.
2. In the 5 years I have had gliders I have TAKEN in maybe under 15, upon questioning others they too have taken in about that many and this is over a period of years.
3. I have seen you go from 4 gliders to 28 in about a months time or so. OF those only 7 were rescues which came to you from Judie. I know you said you bought some.
4. I read where you have more waiting to come in but you haven't the room for them.
5. I also know the conditions these gliders came from, and know that at least one has medical problems, I didn't see that stated.
6. I also know the experience level in which you are trying to attempt this. This is too large of an operation for someone that has only had gliders for 8 months.
7. To place that many gliders is difficult, those that just have 4 babies a year have a hard time placing those in good homes, let alone rescues that may have longer term problems or hidden genetic, emotional problems. Rescues require more experienced homes, and they are not that widely available.
Now to try to explain where I THINK Katara is coming from, as I think her emotions are getting in the way of saying what she really wants
to say. If I am wrong Katara please forgive me and feel free to correct me.
I agree with what she said about the rescues being our responsibilty. When we take in rescues it is up to that home, to be as stable as possible. To see the gliders shifted does more emotional damage than one that may be sitting in a pet shop for a year. I myself have seen, gliders that have been "rescued" by everyone and his brother only to see those same rescues up for sale in 6 months to a year. When we assume that responsibilty, we assume it for the love of the species. I have seen too many "rescues" that people are considering rescues without the slightest idea as to what they are doing. I myself speak with people all the time that have these "rescues" that are having hard times with their trust issues, they leave the "rescued homes" fine, but then the new owners have horrid times getting them to trust again. I know of 17 gliders right now that was dumped, I am trying to help find homes for them BEFORE I bring them here, as my home is not going to be a middle move for those that have already been unstable. They will go directly to their new FINAL homes. Just gliders out of a petshop or from someone that is giving them away are NOT rescues. Every glider for sale would be considered a rescue. The true rescues look at it's new home as their final move. The discussion was up before about breeders should not be breeding if they are not willing to keep or take back the joeys. This goes the same for any glider. This is too overwhelming of a task for many of us. But we have seen it already. I know many people that do "rescues" they make a place in their hearts and in their homes.
Then comes the issues of your trying to get a USDA license, with 28 gliders at this time, it seems you are on a large scale breeder goal, even taking the 7 away that still leaves 10 pair. That would lead us to think your intentions is breeding.. and if that is the case, then the thread itself should have been deleted. As there are many breeders of far less than what you have, that has not been allowed to post theirs. And they have respected the rules of this base. To them I say thank you. You don't see people who take in rescues selling them on the net, as it is very hard for them to keep track of them. IF your intentions are the people in your own area, then this base isn't the place to advertise. I personally think all these threads should be deleted, closed and lost in the files. The gliders should come first. Which I have to agree means you have assumed that responsibility, I believe you should accept it. For those that don't understand where I am coming from look at the classified boards, look at the sales boards that are setup for gliders, there are too many people giving them up in groves.
Rescues is a delicate issue for some, when you advertise you have rescues, you may become a simple drop off for people that don't want to care for them, and by the time you get them sometimes they are too far gone to help. It also makes it SEEM like your in it for the money. To not have the medical means of helping these gliders in the middle of the night, can cause some serious problems.
By the way, when you wanted to know about Kataras rescues, she has had quite a bit, some haven't been as lucky as some, but we all have had those, in fact she has been a dropoff for those that haven't had the proper care and died only minutes after reaching her home. She is not one to be patronized for her beliefs, regarding the assuming of responsibility, too bad more people out there don't feel the same way. She also has rescues, that she has chosen to hold on to, not until they get tamer, but for the long term commitment. You will find MOST long time owners also do the same thing. Through the taming/trust building/bonding process they learn to trust their "rescuer", then that too is ripped away from them. But what the heck, they are ONLY "rescues" . I myself see too many rescues treated as disposable pets. take them in, sell them off. But what the heck, they are ONLY "rescues" .
| Posted by: | Kitara, fuzzybabies@juno.com | | Subject: | yes | | When: | 2:29 AM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.31.46.216 |
You are right B my emotions are effecting what I wanted to say. Thank you , you did a great job. I too think all the posts should be deleted! I also would like to ask that if you have a negative opinion on me or how I care, raise, rescue, my gliders that you keep it to yourself and do not email me! Enough is enough 
Kitara
| Posted by: | Treva, treva_dng@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 7:23 AM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 208.194.210.127 |
Wouldn't it be nice if we cared about our homeless children this way!
| Posted by: | Rocki'sMom, babygirl@ccp.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 8:26 AM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.60.86.80 |
Bourbon, first off, I don't have 28 gliders, never did, not even close. Most I had was 23, only had that many fora few days and have place a few of those. I agree, I do assume financial responsibility for these guys, that is why they have all been in for vet checks and had fecals done etc; I did pay for it, I didn't put the lil gliders out there with a cup to beg for money or anything. You mention not having the medical means to take care of them...again, you dont know anything about that regarding me. I have taken each one into the vet and payed for each visit. I am using part of the money recieved off of them to have the male neutered. I am doing that as I go along. And Bourbon yes...you are correct, one of the girls had a medical problem...you didn't see my say anything about that because she is not up for adoption. She is staying with me and my family. I would not expect anyone to take a tailess glider who may have problems in the future. ANd just since you seem to want to make it your business what I am doing in regards to the gliders, no....I don't intend to breed any of the rescues. They all came to me with joey's in pouch, the males are being neutered, some already have, the others will be done before it is possible for them to get pregant again. I do intend to breed my 2 original pairs, atleast for a few liters. As far as my intentions on where I will place the rescues....I will place them whereever there is a good home for them. I put them on here because I thought someone might be able to provide a good home for them here. I drove 8 hours to get my second girl and I though there might be more like me who are willing to drive. When I drove to get her, I drove in 3 states to get her, so it is not an outrageous idea to think that someone who reads here from another state would like to give them a good home and would be willing to drive or we always have the glider railroad, which has been used several times as well. As for selling them for $200 per pair, well you ought to know B....I am not in it for profit, how could I be at that price? $100 per glider will not even cover the vet visits, neutering etc, the rest comes out of my pocket. And as I stated before, I am negotiable on the price as the main thing is finding a good home.
"That I too also believe that gliders should not be given away; however, there are some seriously special conditions here, that I find a bit confusing. "
I'm not sure what is confusing to you, you seem to know all there is to know about me.
"1. I didn't take in my first rescue till I had glider for 2 years, and was well aware of the money, time and health issues involved."
I took mine in after 6 months and was also well aware of the money, time and health issues involved.
"2. In the 5 years I have had gliders I have TAKEN in maybe under 15, upon questioning others they too have taken in about that many and this is over a period of years. "
What does that have to do with anything...There happened to be more who needed homes here in my area, so I am a terrible person, I took them out of a home where they got not attention and were fed catfood and raisens as a sole diet.
"3. I have seen you go from 4 gliders to 28 in about a months time or so. OF those only 7 were rescues which came to you from Judie. I know you said you bought some."
You saw me go from 1 to 22 and back down to 18 in a matter of 8 months. Of those 4 were NOT rescues.
"4. I read where you have more waiting to come in but you haven't the room for them."
Yes I have been contacted about 2 more, but I just don't have the room right now, what is confusing about that?
"5. I also know the conditions these gliders came from, and know that at least one has medical problems, I didn't see that stated. "
You only know what I have posted in regards to the conditions they came from and you only have a clue about 7 of them, the others you have no idea where or whom they came from. And as I stated the ONLY one who had any medical problem is not up for adotion, she and her mate are staying with us.
"6. I also know the experience level in which you are trying to attempt this. This is too large of an operation for someone that has only had gliders for 8 months."
You are certainly welcome to your opinion and granted, I may not know as much as you or some of the other veterans, but I certainly know more about them then the places they came from and I take them in for vet checks and fecals, I feed them BML plan and they are housed in clean cages with clean pouches and they are loved, so don't tell me I can't be good for them because I haven't had gliders for longer than I have. Would you rather they be with a brand new person who doesnt' have a clue or god forbid with the people they came from who had them for 2+ years and didn't have a clue. Years of ownership is such a small tool for judging acceptability of ownership. I have seen people who are brand new owners do a wonderful job and folks who have had them for 3 years do a crappy job. It should be based on the individual.
"7. To place that many gliders is difficult, those that just have 4 babies a year have a hard time placing those in good homes, let alone rescues that may have longer term problems or hidden genetic, emotional problems. Rescues require more experienced homes, and they are not that widely available. "
You are correct, it is harder to place them and if they dont find placement, they will live out there lives here, happily playing with me and my family. As far as hidden genetic or emotional problems, that is not just with rescues...that cold be with any glider that you get. Without papers tracking all of their genetic history, you could have the same thing from a good breeder.
Anyway, it is a shame that this thread had to become something other than what it was intended for. I opened this thread to thank Kitara for sharing her experience with me and asked her to share more thoughts, tips and ideas with me. I hope that we could get back to that.
Thanks,
Carolyn
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | you can... | | When: | 9:34 AM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.210 |
turn this into what ever you want, we are trying to express our concerns, with these rescues, I do know more than you are giving me credit for, I did at at least one, I know of the other glider in the other cage, For someone that has researched not only the self mutilations but also the health aspects, these gliders need more tests than just a fecal exam. They need complete exams, What has happened with these two gliders may very well spill over, into maybe not your gliders, but maybe someone elses, to seem healthy is one thing. The conditions these gliders were in was a prime canidate for some serious health problems. Heath problems that may not show up right away. I am not trying to degrade you if that is what you may think. But I think you may be taking these issues just a little too lightly. I will not continue this, as I have already said what I had to say. And more than I wanted to. In fact I have told others that have contacted me through the night, that the conditions were absurd in some of the rescues, and there were some serious concerns I had, I did not go into any detail with them, as I will not go into details here. These gliders are gliders that can't just be sold to just anyone, They wwill require someone to take them understanding the possible long term issues that may be involved, and the fact that when they leave your home, that the chances of those gliders retrusting will be very, very difficult. They also more than most will need to have an emegency night contact number for a vet. These are serious issues and need not to be taken lightly.
| Posted by: | Rocki'sMom, babygirl@ccp.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:50 AM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.60.86.111 |
Bourbon...I agree, this is serious. I am taking it seriously, did you not read my posts, they have had complete vet exams...all of them and she self mutilated because her tail had been broken in several places, not for any other reason. And unless I bread on of the other gliders tails, this will not spill over to any other gliders. I am not saying you are trying to degrade me, I am saying that I am taking it seriously and have taken great care of them and will continue to do so until they are placed with GOOD, KNOWLEDGABLE people. I have not tried to hide anything here, I stated right off the bat that they are rescues. And yes, you did know more at one point, when I had my original 4, but you have never met, seen nor been told any details of the other gliders I have. The reason you did not go into any detail with anyone who may have contacted you, if there was anyone, is because you DON"T KNOW any of the details. You have not had any contact with me personally since the first few days of August and none of these guys were with me then. Please Bourbon, just stay out of my posts. I have left you alone and when I post in regards to you, it is only good and I would like if you did the same or atleast did not post regarding my posts as you obviously have way to many emotions regarding me. I read your posts and I appreciate you knowledge, but I am tired of the games you continue to play. Please stop, I am asking very nicely to end this war. I have, could you please try?
Thanks,
Carolyn
| Posted by: | Rocki'sMom, babygirl@ccp.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 4:29 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.60.86.99 |
So Kitara, How long do you usually have your rescues before you give them away?
And what is your game plan for trying to tame them more?
| Posted by: | Kitara, fuzzybabies@juno.com | | Subject: | let it go.. | | When: | 4:47 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.15.138.195 |
I dont wish to discuss this issue any further at this time, please try to understand and let this go. Maybe we can discuss this at a later time after the things settle down.
Kitara
| Posted by: | Rocki'sMom, babygirl@ccp.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 6:15 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.60.86.106 |
Kitara,
I got your email before I checked this board. I don't understand....You guys jump me about dealing with rescues because of my inexperience, then you refuse to teach me or help me. I just don't get it.
Anyone else who has delt with rescues, please feel free to post with any helpful hints and or suggestions you have.
Thanks everyone for your help.
Carolyn ;)
| Posted by: | Kitara, fuzzybabies@juno.com | | Subject: | ok? | | When: | 6:25 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.31.46.196 |
As I told you in the email I am willing to teach you but I dont want it discussed on the board right now it is to contrevesial. There are to many tempers here, mine included. Can we end this now please!
Kitara
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | By the way | | When: | 9:12 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.200 |
This is why we decided as a group there would be no sales on this base. JFYI, I also know there was another glider at the same feed store different cagee that self mutilated.. Through all the research I have done with self mutialters.. there was 1 that had more than 1 in the same place, it was caused by some serious problems.. not that it matters..
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | By the way | | When: | 9:13 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.200 |
This is why we decided as a group there would be no sales on this base. JFYI, I also know there was another glider at the same feed store different cagee that self mutilated.. Through all the research I have done with self mutialters.. there was 1 that had more than 1 in the same place, it was caused by some serious problems.. not that it matters..
| Posted by: | Kitara, fuzzybabies@juno.com | | Subject: | yup | | When: | 9:30 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.22.231.195 |
Part of the problem here is that when subjects like rescues come up the board is not given all the facts and then tempers fly. There is a lot more to these rescues then a lot know and they are not in my opinion ready for adoption. B,anytime there is a glider that is in need in any way it matters!
| Posted by: | Rocki'sMom, babygirl@ccp.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:04 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.60.86.117 |
Bourbon, what are you talking about...feed store? The gliders did not come from a feed store, nor was there another one who mutilated. If you are talking about the 3 lil males that I showed you ate the Orshelen store, I have no idea what became of them, they are not there any more and I assume they were sold and none of them had self mutilated. Once again, you are chiming in about something you know nothing about. Please just stay out of it and stop making things up about me and my gliders to keep things going. I repeat, I have no idea what you are talking about feed store gliders, nor was there any other glider who self mutilated, no stop this!
| Posted by: | Treva, treva_dng@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:14 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 208.194.210.22 |
well all entitled to our opinions but sometimes I think some of us go just a tad overboard...not every glider is gonna go to a good home ,,,, not every glider is going to be a sweet glider.... it's like child abuse.... just because you have a child doesn't make you a good parent and just because you have a child doesn't mean he's going to be a sweet child......why don't ya'll just give your advice.... and for gods sake cut out the numbers..... and all..... the readers on this board don't care how long you've had gliders or how many youv'e had.....or how much you think you know....what i think about this whole business is this.... each person here is responsible for their actions..... just becasue you don't like what someone else may be doing or how their doing it. "tough"..... it's really none of your business... and just becasue someone may post something you don't agree about.... your gonna get mad at it???.... get over it.... all you can do is do the best you can..... feel like i'm in a 5th grade class room with a bunch of girls just getting their hormones.... go figure... and I appluad you guys that do rescue.. no MATTER how you do it.... or what you make..... because if it wasn't for you some of the gliders would NOT survive..... soooooo no matter how you do it or what you MAKE.... your still saving gliders... and for those that think their doing it all right.... I"m sure your not.... and for those of you that think your not doing it all right... your at least willing to learn... and Carlyon as far as what you make on your gliders... you deserve it... and it's NOBODY'S business what you make or how you do it....and you DON't have to justify your self at all ..... not to anyone...... if someone doesn't like what your doing and how your doing it.... to bad.... at least your doing good for the gliders.... good for the ones that wouldn't have survived if you didn't do rescue...
treva
| Posted by: | Kitara, fuzzybabies@juno.com | | Subject: | chimming in again:) | | When: | 10:19 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.24.110.123 |
All right, now im P ed again! Yes there was another self mutilating glider! Bourbon knows exactly what she is talking about and so do I. The gliders came from a pet store of some type. You know the facts and so do we, we are willing to help you but you are going to need to listen instead of trying to defend this. The fate of those gliders is the main concern here and you dont seem to get that. They need medical tests, and more bonding before they can be considered for homes and then they will have to start over bonding once you uproot them again. Please instead of going off at us think about what we are trying to tell you. We are not trying to say we are better, just that we have more experience and can see what these gliders need and are going through.
| Posted by: | Kitara, fuzzybabies@juno.com | | Subject: | just for treva | | When: | 10:29 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.24.110.123 |
The numbers make all the differance . When you actually know what you are talking about or care to learn from those who do then let us know! What you just post was so degrating to the gliders I am sorry you have any.
| Posted by: | Treva, treva_dng@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:37 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 208.194.210.22 |
Well thank you Kitara ....... I knew you wouldn't let me down!
| Posted by: | Moderator | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:39 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.190 |
Thread closed
| Posted by: | Kitara, fuzzybabies@juno.com | | Subject: | aqnytime:) | | When: | 10:41 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 63.24.110.123 |
I would let you down anytime its the gliders I will NOT let down. You actually thought that was for you and not the gliders! ROTFLMAO!!!
| Posted by: | Rocki'sMom, babygirl@ccp.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:41 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.60.86.117 |
Kitara,
I beg to differ with what you or bourbon knows of these gliders. There was one self mutilator that after a complete vet check was diagnosed with haveing a broken tail in several places, there were NO OTHER Mutilators there. How would you or bourbon know a thing about these gliders. The only glider she saw were at a feed or farm supply store, I have nothing to do with those gliders. I checked on them over a period of about 2 months and the last time I checked, they were gone and the store does not carry gliders anymore. I don't understand why you would even say that you or bourbon knows anything about me or these gliders. I don't even know who you are or where you live or anything about you and have not spoken with bourbon for months. KITARA YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME OR THESE GLIDERS! You people are rediculious. yes, the important thing is the gliders, that is why I have them and have taken them in for complete vet exams and put them on a healthy diet and larger cages etc. They are very sweet gliders contrary to your beleif which is based on absolutely nothing. I can hold them, pet them, carry them around etc; 2 of the pairs are pocket trained. My kids handle them daily also, so they must not be these horrible monsters you are trying to make them out to be. If you want me to listen and stop defending, then stop attacking and talk. I will listen have been trying to, but I can't hear for all the Bull---- that seems to be going around.
Thanks,
Carolyn
Treva, you are right in your post. Thanks for posting.
| Posted by: | Judie, RichJHausmann@cs.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 11:08 PM, 25 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 152.163.195.186 |
The last glider was a male who had a mate and who had self mutilated herself so badly and was in so much pain that the owner put the animal down herself. This is why the pet store asked me to take the gliders. When I arrived at the store the male was in a cage by himself. The other gliders consisted of two pairs and one trio. One female was taken from the trio and placed in with the lone male. The pet shop kept that female to sell. The result of what was left of the trio was 1 male and one female who had mutilated her tail of which neither of us new about until you got them home. But I was told about the single male who lost his mate and I also told you as they needed to be vet checked. The seriousness of the question of the self mutilation is we do not know why this single male's mate mutilated herself. Could it be from stress? Could be...and in the condition they were living in I would have died sooner. But the other problem is...the un-named neoatode. And the problem with this is it can spread and cannot be found until the animal itself is dead.
I myself did not take the rescues as I have no quartine area and it would have been diasterous to exspose all of my gliders to something that could have been prevented. I also did not want to take on the added exspence of the vet bills
as I already have enough of my own without taking on more. This is why I do not do rescues. I do however buy back my babies if something happens and then I will try to locate a more stable home.
When dealing with Rescues the necessary tests required are, fecal, urine, x-ray and a blood chemistry profile. And then even if the animal checks out I would think the quartine period is longer than 30 days.
I did not realize at the time when I asked you about taking the gliders you were going to sell all of them. I knew you were looking for gliders and I was under the impression you were going to be licensed and breed. I was not aware you were buying gliders for a little of nothing and then reselling then and the same with all of the rescues.
To do all of the above you will need to apply for a type "B" license with the USDA.
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