 | Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | Technical-Albino Genetics | | When: | 9:22 PM, 20 Sep 2000 | | IP: | 24.48.198.139 |
how exactly is the Albino's what they call genetically altered? Is that done by inbreeding or linebreeding, and what is the difference in them the inbreeding vs the linebreeding
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| Posted by: | KarenE, KarenElfrank@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:02 PM, 20 Sep 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.197.58 |
Well, I don't know a whole lot about this subject, but I guess I'll go first with what little I do understand.
Inbreeding is pretty much as most understand it - breeding between extremely close relatives, i.e. mothers/sons;fathers/daughters;brothers/sisters.
Linebreeding is between distant relatives - grandfathers/granddaughters;grandmothers/grandsons;uncles/nieces;aunts/nephews;distant cousins.
This is my understanding anyway. Now how does that relate to the albino: I may be way off here but here goes anyway: It is my understanding that inbreeding will bring forth the gene which will cause this condition while linebreeding can eventually after several generations correct the condition.
Bourbon, if this is no where near correct, please delete my post as if I was never here 
| Posted by: | John Derek, jdg716@yahoo.com | | Subject: | Inbreeding/linebreeding links | | When: | 9:40 AM, 21 Sep 2000 | | IP: | 204.48.27.130 |
Instead of trying to tell you about it here are some links I have found:
<a href=http://www.britannica.com/seo/i/inbreeding/>http://www.britannica.com/seo/i/inbreeding/</a>
<a href=http://www.gsdhelpline.freeserve.co.uk/gensforbreeders.htm>http://www.gsdhelpline.freeserve.co.uk/gensforbreeders.htm</a>
<a href=http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/Inbreeding.html>http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/Inbreeding.html</a>
<a href=http://www.bcu.ubc.ca/~whitlock/bio434/LectureNotes/09.InbreedingI/InbreedingI.html>http://www.bcu.ubc.ca/~whitlock/bio434/LectureNotes/09.InbreedingI/InbreedingI.html</a>
<a href=http://www.bioweb.uncc.edu/faculty/leamy/popgen/inbredex.htm>http://www.bioweb.uncc.edu/faculty/leamy/popgen/inbredex.htm</a>
Hope it helps.
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | oh my... | | When: | 8:54 PM, 21 Sep 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.86.87 |
‘Albinoism’ is not necessarily what would be considered an altered gene. It is a recessed gene that is infrequently prominent in wild animals. These animals that actually show the albino gene generally do not successfully live to maturity – due to the simply fact that the coloring eliminates their chances of camouflaging and hiding from predators. This is not always the case though, for recently a trio of mature albino Colombian boas were found in a snake pit and extracted by herpetologists.
Inbreeding and line breeding in captive care is generally used to bring the recessed gene (whatever it may be) to the forefront of a particular line. With exotic animals the terms tend to vary quite a bit from domesticated animals, I’ve found.
Inbreeding is a term generally used when describing the breeding of animals that are directly related in one way or another - within 5-6 generations or so. IE - siblings & cousins, grand*.
Line-breeding is a term to describe a type of inbreeding. Line-breeding is very close inbreeding… Taking daughter back against dad and their offspring back against the daughter’s siblings. This is most often used to dramatically show a particular gene in the whole family of animals.
You’ll find that most breeders will only line-breed for X amount of generations and then the out-cross to diversify the gene-pool and start all over again.
Ok Bourbon, to finally answer your second question – It can be done both ways for the albino gene.
Ill try to explain that one in a bit.
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | continued... | | When: | 11:10 PM, 21 Sep 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.85.112 |
(ummm, what happened to the previous posts and the pic? Can they be bounced back onto the board?)
Ok, here goes…
An albino animal is one that produces no pigment, melanin or erythrin.
For those of you who saw the picture, you’ll remember that it was blonde in color and not completely white.
#1 – This glider isn’t a true albino… it is actually what is known as amelanistic – which is the absence of the pigment melanin. (produces shades of black)
Many of the animals readily available in the pet trade, or even not so, that are being called ‘albino’ are in fact amelanistic animals. ie. - Albino Burmese pythons for example are white and yellow. The yellow is caused by production of the pigment erythrin but no melanin.
Either trait though, can be reproduced the same ways in their offspring.
The easiest way to get average chances of a breeding’s possible outcome, in regards to a particular gene, is the Punnett square. (tic tac toe)
Amelanism is a recessive gene. Therefore it would be represented as “aa” whereas an animal that is normal would be “AA”.
Breed these 2 together, you would end up with some heterozygous offspring – meaning they carry the gene, but do not display it outwardly.
| Posted by: | Tigger, TiggerL337@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 7:44 AM, 22 Sep 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.195.58 |
anouther ?? will they have pink eye's ?? so let me see here (gliders all ready have problems with bright light???)so would they be blind?? or is it possable!! ;)
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | eyes... | | When: | 10:29 AM, 22 Sep 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.85.210 |
Yes, they would have pinkish eyes. Simply because there would be no pigment production to create any color - the bloodflow through the eye is partially visible causing them to look pink. This wouldnt cause any diverse effect on the glider though; Their eyes would 'work' fine - actual eye color doesnt effect the sight.
Correction/explaination to first post - The genes that inhibit pigment production are actually a natural mutation of pigment producing genes. These genes are not genetically altered by people, but are exploited and manipulated by people through selective breeding. Some references do refer to them as genetic alterations - but dont fully explain the definition of the term in its context.
| Posted by: | John Derek, jdg716@yahoo.com | | Subject: | Ok I get it... | | When: | 1:21 PM, 22 Sep 2000 | | IP: | 204.48.27.130 |
Ok, I get what your saying BUT could you post the link to the picture you posted? Also how do you get the black eyes. I would think that would come by breeding back to a "REGULAR" glider. However like everyone else I am learning. Thanks!
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | black eyes... | | When: | 8:07 PM, 24 Sep 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.86.235 |
Hi John,
Actually the glider that was posted - isnt mine.  and I didnt save the picture to be able to post a link to it again on the baord. If the back-up files are restored from the old forum and accessible at some future point, the picture is under the albino glider for sale post - or something similarly titled.
The black eyes and a white body? In gliders, Im not sure exactly how that would work... but by using a rule of thumb - black eyes would usually be produced in the lines somewhere - as the red eyes would. White critters with black eyes are casually termed 'leucistic'. These animals still produce melanin, which is seen in the black (or sometimes very dark blue) eyes. It is believed the exact mutation of this gene prohibits the melanin to be visible in the body, yet is visible in the eyes.
Unfortunately, the genetics get a bit too in depth around this point for me to be able to explain them... as I fight to understand them myself when chromatophores come into play. Im working on it though
| Posted by: | Moderator | | Subject: | none | | When: | 4:01 PM, 03 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.48.198.240 |
pulled up for added discussion
| Posted by: | Rocki'sMom, babygirl@ccp.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 4:38 PM, 03 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.60.86.126 |
Irish Creme,
Thank you for your explaination. I'm stil not sure I understand the whole thing, but you did a great job of conveying it to us. Thanks!
| Posted by: | Lisa | | Subject: | Irish Cream | | When: | 7:36 PM, 03 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 207.175.52.95 |
Irish Cream, you always seem to know your stuff. Are you a vet or do you just always do your homework Also, you're from PA right? Where abouts? Thanks for the great info-easy to follow and well explained!
| Posted by: | Lina, lina@napanet.net | | Subject: | albino pic | | When: | 9:18 PM, 03 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 152.163.194.178 |
I have that picture that was going around with the albino glider for sale. I don't know how to post it but if someone tells me I can do it. Or I can email it to you, just email me.
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | Lisa | | When: | 1:05 AM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.85.36 |
Thank you... Nope, Im not a vet... but I do have complete access to my vets library. I also consistantly research topics that I find interesting. Ive been on the wagon with my gliders for many years... and in the last 5 years have really taken an interest in AU animals - big and small. 
('Sides, I dont post an answer if Im not confident of my answer.)
Yes, Im in Pa. Honey Brook, actually... its east of Lancaster.
| Posted by: | Judie, RichJHausmann@cs.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 4:04 AM, 09 Nov 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.200.34 |
For linebreeding the first three generations are the most important.
The breeders who are breeding them are keeping the supply down to discourage breeding.
The white glider has the dark eyes and dark or normal skin color. Whereas the Albino has pink eyes and pink skin due to the lack of pigment. Albino gliders do exist, and they do reproduce readily.
Also, there are breeders who are breeding colors.
One breeder is trying to breed blondes. She is striving for a golden color (much like a retrivers) with a black mask and black stripe. Her gliders produce both blondes and normal colors. The true coloration is not reached until they reach adulthood. Some with the promise of turning blonde actually will turn to normal coloration as they mature. However, she does have one pair who do breed true blondes consistantly.
Another breeder I know of is breeding cinnamons.
Again, they do not breed true. And the color change applies to them as well.
Both of these breeders are not doing any form of linebreeding or inbreeding.
One breeder I know is breeding with wild caught stock. I would think if they would do some linebreeding their chances of perfecting colors would be greatly increased.
| Posted by: | John Derek, jdg716@yahoo.com | | Subject: | Ok, and about the others... | | When: | 3:56 PM, 10 Nov 2000 | | IP: | 204.48.27.130 |
How do you get any of the other colors? If a glider is gray and black how do they get the browns and reds and creams and so on? I woman here in town rescued a BROWN no markings, since that is what some breeders are going for now, no strips and different colors how would you go about bringing the right jeans out?
| Posted by: | Judie, RichJHausmann@cs.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:02 AM, 11 Nov 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.196.37 |
John,
The Blonde does have a stripe and mask. The breeder is trying to achieve a true blonde with the stripe and mask that is the normal dark grey to black mask and stripe but has fur color oa a golden retriever, instead of the normal grey/brown.
I am only guressing but I think the colors are coming from the cinnamons.
| Posted by: | Judie, RichJHausmann@cs.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:23 AM, 11 Nov 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.196.37 |
Breeding for colors is very time consuming. Most do not breed true. The true color of the offspring is not achived until they reach adulthood. With this in mind, a baby who looks like a blond may change color in adulthood and be of normal color.
By Linebreeding it seems that the chances would be a higher percentage for throwing a more true color. However to line breed you have to keep at least three or four generations of gliders and only the ones who have the color you are trying to develop. Since gliders do not breed till they are almost a year old it would take many years to achieve what one is trying to breed for.
If one understands a pedigree of pure breed dogs the same thing here would apply to developing colors in Sugar Gliders. It depends on the strong genetic traits the parents throw to their offspring.
| Posted by: | Sheila, kwillson@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:41 AM, 11 Nov 2000 | | IP: | 64.12.104.189 |
I was told once it is easier to get an albino glider than a white glider with black eyes. it would seem to me that if a White glider with black eyes were inbred, wouldn't this increase the chance that once you got that type of glider your babies would have a better chance of deformities?
| Posted by: | Moderator | | Subject: | Bringing to the top | | When: | 6:02 PM, 17 Nov 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.214 |
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