 | Posted by: | Gliderlover | | Subject: | Insectavore-fare concerns!! | | When: | 12:11 PM, 02 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
I havent given this product a try but had heard only good things about it so I did some research and came up with a few strange results. For one thing there are NO insects in the ingredient. The first ingredients:
*Meat By-Products, Fish Meal, Shrimp Meal, Wheat Flour.
This sounds like some commercial cat and dog foods. Meat by-products = gristle, fat, etc. Fish and shrimp meal are by-products (left-overs from processing and usually the less desirable bits) dried and powdered.
(This food is lower in protein than most cat foods and higher on fat.)
*Dried Bakery By-Products. (Old, stale bread)
*Crushed Roasted Peanuts (Gliders like peanuts and they are fairly nutritious as well as have a
great fatty acid profile (meaning they have "good" fats). But, probably left-overs from processing for human foods and probably contain a large
proportion of shells).
*Calcium Carbonate, Concentrated Carotene,
Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate with
D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of vitamin D-3), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Choline Chloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K
activity), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamin
Mononitrate, Ascorbic Acid, Sodium Selenite, Manganous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Ethylene Diamine Dihydriodide., Magnesium Sulfate, P-Amino benzoic Acid, Folic Acid, Sulfur, Biotin, Natural and Artificial Flavors.
(who knows what amounts of these things are needed? Are there some essential nutrients left out?
We don't have the information to be able to judge).
Well to finish off a final message: most commercial foods in pet stores for exotic animals are not based on research. They cannot claim they meet the nutritional needs of gliders (or many other exotic animals) because there is so much we don't know about their needs. The best diet is the
one that most approximates their natural diet. Their natural diet is the diet they have evolved - physically - to survive on. We cannot, and do not have to, provide trees with tree saps and huge
amounts of insects of many varities for gliders. But we can approximate their natural diets.
 
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| Posted by: | Mary, intr01dc@frank.mtsu.edu | | Subject: | Hrm | | When: | 12:33 PM, 02 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.82.28 |
Well I have also never tried this product...and for a vey long time never commented on it because I didn't know much about it.
I ofcourse would look more into it if I was going to use it..but since I have no issues with feeding bugs I haven't really worrued about it.
Recently I have seen so many posts saying how wonderful Cathy delany was and how we should use her diet plans. Her "paper" specificly mentions this product...or was she refering to something different?
<a href=http://www.zen-inc.com/>http://www.zen-inc.com/</a>
Why would she list something that wasn't reaserched or good for the gliders?
I don't know...seems real weird. I can't understand why it doesn't have insects in it! I have always "heard" that it contained insects!
I hope someone else will comment on this. I never should have suggested something without looking into it myself. I feel bad for ever suggestiong it.
| Posted by: | Toni, gliderlover@yahoo.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:43 PM, 02 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 206.29.135.160 |
Cathy Delaney mentions an "commercially prepared insectivorous diet", which is not the exact 'insectivore fare'. Insectivore fare is a commercially prepared insectivorous diet though. So she isn't mentioning it specifically, but it does qualify, at least the people making the 'insectivore fare' states it does.
I'm not surprised it doesn't contain insects...it would be approximating a diet of insects, containing the same proteins and other ingredients found in insects. Not actually crushed insects.
I've never found a cat/dog food label I've understood yet, so to not understand or like the ingredients list on this stuff is not surprising. With my dog and cat, I just buy premium brands that are recommended over all others. With insectivore fare (which I do use almost daily, have for quite a while), its the only one available. I will be looking now for other types of insectivorous diets, to see if comparisons show one to be better.
| Posted by: | Gliderlover | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:31 PM, 02 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
Toni, do you know of a diiferent insectavore food? I want to try one, but the insectavore-fare sold on sugarglider.net is obviously not the best for sugar gliders. Thanks ;)
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | you could try... | | When: | 10:24 PM, 02 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 209.71.86.40 |
calling a local farm & feed store.
I rotate a (herbivor - NOT leaf-eater) monkey chow into my gliders diet as an additional food source.
I certainly dont rely on it as a steady portion of their diet, but its nice for a change.
I soak it in a fruit juice until its mushy...
And they tear it up!
| Posted by: | Gliderlover | | Subject: | none | | When: | 11:29 PM, 02 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
I have also noticed the same probs with briskeys and mazuri omnivore. Its really bad that these are called foods for sugar gliders. It would be very interesting if a company took the time to make a dry food for sugar gliders that maybe provided some of their natural foods (eucalyptus sap, acacia gum, insects). Also better research of supplemental needs would be great. I asked if anyone had any data about the leadbeaters mix on another post, it wasn't answered, so can anyone help me? I want to see maybe a chart on amounts of lipid (fat), protein, calcium, phoshporus in the BMLeadbeaters? Thanks ;)
| Posted by: | chrissy, crisi13@aol.com | | Subject: | Gliderlover | | When: | 12:40 AM, 03 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.196.32 |
I love how you described the ingredients.Like "biproduct" or "______ meal" or saying that they are left overs from human processed foods. I have done a ton of research on dog foods, I have read so much on what is in them and how it affects there digestive systems. I was even making homemade meals for them cost was about the same even cheaper at times when I got meat on sale. But when you have three large dogs (2rotts, and 1 rott/lab. mix) it would take a hole day to make there food to last 1 week (considering each dog eats 5cups a day. ) just imagine the dishes,LARGE pans, lots of work, I finally found a dog food that I feel is better than most, although they sure miss the home cooked meals  at least gliders don't eat near as much fresh food is a breeze compared to my dogs glad you posted this
| Posted by: | chrissy, crisi13@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 12:50 AM, 03 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.196.32 |
also in just some info that i have read
there is not anywhere close to as much regulations for commercial pet foods as there is for a human.. imagine what they get away with, the cheaper they can make it the cheaper they can sell it the more that will buy it its all about $$$$$$ look how many people feed there dogs Ol Roy!!! poor dogs, and even some high price foods for dogs, are full of bad stuff it really helps to research what those words on the ingredients of ANY pet food really means.......good rule of thumb if one of the first ingredients is corn meal or byproduct anything thats probably a bad sign corn is a filler and its usually not any corn that whould be suitable for us humans. Sorry to get of the track but any pet owner should know this stuff I could go on and on and on and on.... but I won't.
| Posted by: | Lina, lina@napanet.net | | Subject: | would love more info | | When: | 12:47 PM, 03 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.139.153.51 |
I am also looking for more info about an insectavore feed, I have a few gliders that are shunning bugs, and I would like to offer them a healthy alternative.
Toni, if you do find a better product, please let us know!
| Posted by: | Mary, intr01dc@frank.mtsu.edu | | Subject: | Gliderlover | | When: | 11:07 PM, 03 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.82.202 |
Gliderlover: I am confused as to why you keep asking for a chart for the BMLeadbeaters. Someone posted on another board that they already sent it to you. Also you know if you order the video from the SGGA that the chart comes with it. However you said you didn't want the video. If you want the chart then youn know how to get it..just order the video. Its not hard to do.
| Posted by: | Gliderlover | | Subject: | none | | When: | 11:18 PM, 03 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.65.233.144 |
Mary what are you talking about? What video? Who sent me a chart? Thanks
| Posted by: | Mary, intr01dc@frank.mtsu.edu | | Subject: | The video | | When: | 11:46 PM, 03 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.82.202 |
At the SGGA all the numbers you want to know where mentioned. However they were mentioned in a presentation. If you purchase the video then the chart you ask for will come with. I thought I read that soemone sent you the chart without the video...guess I mistook you for someone else. You have a twin sister.
To purchase the video send an email to Bourbon@iname.com and ask to be put on the list.
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | lol | | When: | 3:03 AM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.48.198.157 |
no Mary you were right on the mark, lol.. anyway.. yes she does have a copy of the figures, and no I am sorry but you said the insectavore fare was not a healthy alternative, so please back up your statements with facts.. In case you haven't noticed this board relies real heavily on facts, and not suppositions, speculations, and just plain I thinks.
Toni, I agree, that the insect diets do contain the same nutrients that insect may provide. All of the insectavore feeds are pretty similar, as for mazori, there you are getting into an omnivore feed. so there isn't much comparing needed..
| Posted by: | Lina, lina@napanet.net | | Subject: | insects | | When: | 1:31 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.139.153.51 |
I understand that insectavore feed doesn't need to contain insects to be a substitute, but does anyone think any of the ones on the market are a healthly alternative?
| Posted by: | Toni, gliderlover@yahoo.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 1:54 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 206.29.135.160 |
Just to let you guys that are asking know, I have not been able to locate any other commercial insectivorous diets. But I haven't had more than 20 minutes free to look into it either. If I do find some when I have the time to look (trust me, I will, I love to research), I'll post any I find and the ingredients etc.
Gliderlover, they may be confusing you with me. My email is gliderlover, and on my glider club, my handle is gliderlover. Its my usual handle online. And I had recently asked about a breakdown/chart for BM leadbeaters. The rest of the stuff I don't know about (I'm not the person who recieved a chart, I'm awaiting it with the video, which I of course DO want).
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | none | | When: | 2:01 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.48.198.194 |
Toni, I know the difference between you two, yes you are on the list for the video.
| Posted by: | Mary, intr01dc@frank.mtsu.edu | | Subject: | Toni | | When: | 4:11 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.80.118 |
Sorry for the confussion. I know you are not the same person. There is more than one person who had asked for the chart...except they didn't want the video. THanks for trying to clear things up.
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | substituations.. | | When: | 7:57 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.248.35.189 |
As Cathy DeLaney had stated a commercially sold insectavore feed, some use ominvore feeds, such as mazori others use the insectavore feed, however i still believe that those who offer those feeds still offer the live insects as well.
some people are experimenting with the new world primate feed, but none of these are supposed to be a substitution for their regular diets, but to be used as a suppliment to it.
| Posted by: | Maria, dmeexotics@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 9:22 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.195.39 |
Actually, I give Mazuri Primate feed as a treat once or twice a month. Some of my babies love it, while others won't touch it. I do use Mazuri Omnivore as a staple part of my diet, but I also give insects. I just can't deprive my little guys of the pleasure of ripping off the heads and sucking out the guts
| Posted by: | Mary/Beck, intr01dc@frank.mtsu.edu | | Subject: | Desicions? | | When: | 5:14 PM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 12.77.82.114 |
Is there any new information here? I have been reading up on the commercial feeds topic, but I am specificly concerned with the insectavore. The other post is a tab confusing because it justs lumps all the commercial feeds together.
| Posted by: | Clara, clara@sugarglider.net | | Subject: | Cathy Delaney's Diet | | When: | 7:34 PM, 24 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.146.14.86 |
If you look at Cathy Delaney's diet she mentions using an insectivore diet but she doesn't say which one up at the top. If you go to the very bottom of the page she lists numbers for companies that make the feeds she suggests. Reliable Protein Products is one of those companies and they make Insectivore Fare.
<a href=http://www.exoticanimalmedicine.com/magazine/exoticdvm/12-98_1-99/articles/On_The_Cover/main.htm>http://www.exoticanimalmedicine.com/magazine/exoticdvm/12-98_1-99/articles/On_The_Cover/main.htm</a>
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