 | Posted by: | Irish Creme | | Subject: | Australian glider diets - | | When: | 10:19 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.147.185.201 |
Australia, for one fact... does not experience a "winter" as we do. The temperatures there all year round support insect life.
Yes, there is a difference in available bugs, and the overall distribution of bugs - BUT there are always bugs available.
It is VERY RARE that AU gets a cold spell that will eliminate the bug population. And if the bugs were to migrate (which is fairly easy to do, being a bug) the
gliders would migrate also for simple sake of survival, right?
Gliders do not only eat bugs either. They also eat small vertabrae animals...
Like lizards - which are abundant. Many of the native critters that they would have the opportunity to eat - breed in early summer and the offspring would therefore
hatch end of summer. (approx. incubation being 60-90 days) When cooler weather arrives, these reptiles would naturally be an easy target for a glider due to them
being coldblooded.
Or mice - which just so happen to be a large problem in AU at the moment. These little buggers breed all year round and the smaller ones are not even a close match
for a hungry glider.
Not to mention the many, many other edible "proteins" available.
(None of which include soy products, I might add)
This info was gathered and geared towards the husbandry of reptiles - but the facts are the same, regardless of the species.
<a href=http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/porton/350/climate.html>http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/porton/350/climate.html</a>
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| Posted by: | Ian, iankitc@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:21 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.147.185.201 |
I've found your discussion very interesting, I'm a bit dubious about sugargliders eating lizards some are probably eaten by lizards and the mouse plagues (in fact I
went to a talk on that subject last night) occur in the arid regions in central Australia. The main diet of s/gs in my references are acacia gum,some eucalyptus sap,
invertebrates and invertebrate exudates.Some insects product a sweet sugary coating. Gliders are usually aboreal I've seen one on a 10ft high rock so most of their
food would be too. The weather here can be periodically cold and the gliders would go in to torpor in times of inclement weather. Moths would make up a fait
proportion of there diet in winter the would hibernate on bark and fly on warmer nights although some of them are cold for here.
The carers manual formula is for warm water, full cream powered milk,cornflower, prolac, pentavite and a small pinch of salt plus a few drops of vitamin E oil
weekly or one drop per day and honey.
WEan to honey water mix,fruits insects such as moths and mealworms. Vegetable baby food has been successfully fed. I hope that this doesn't muddy the water
too much. The animals feed on this will be returned to the wild. There is a small possum over here called the leadbeaters possum slightly smaller than the sugar
glider I wonder if thats where the name came from
| Posted by: | Pockets, tinytracks@cac.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:22 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.147.185.201 |
From the book "Wildlife + Woodchips"
by - David Lindenmayer (1996)
I quote-
"Captive Leadbeater's Possums are currently fed a blend called 'Leadbeater's Mix' which was originally developed by Des Hackett, the first person to breed the
species in captivity".
| Posted by: | IrishCreme | | Subject: | predator/prey | | When: | 10:22 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.147.185.201 |
I can easily see gliders being prey for many species of lizards in AU - especially aboreal monitors. And even the many species of snakes that are found throughout
the region.
But there are also many species whos offspring are very small and could easily become a meal for a glider also, I would think.
For instance, a bearded dragon (in captivity) hatches from its egg at 3 1/2-4 inches long (s-t) - the body itself being only half the total length. They do not grow at
extreme rates and would be available throughout the winter months. This would only be a snack. Gliders are relatively much faster than a hatching also and
therefore could catch these prey. Reptiles spend most of their daytime hours basking and if needed, they would climb to whatever height needed to - as long as its
accessible. As soon as nightfall comes though, they may be apt to find a close-by spot for the night; therefore putting them at more of a risk where a glider is
concerned.
As for the mice, I was under the impression that they have spread throughout AU. Not that there's a problem everywhere - but that they could be found everywhere
(within reason). And this would make them an available animal food source should the opportunity arise. If this is not the case, I apologise.
Unfortunately, the natural vegetable food sources a glider would consume arent available worldwide. Therefore we must substitute with similiar foods that are
relatively available, hense fruits & veggies.
BUT
My point is simply that there are many, many natural sources of animal protein that a glider has the opportunity to consume and given that opportunity will consume
in the wild.
Temperatures in AU do not drop drastically enough to eliminate the available animal protein sources. (The statement above, regarding this, is false.)
Our gliders are not in the wild - they are captive bred and raised. They will not be released into the wild. They are caged. And will remain so as pets. They do not
have the opportunity to hunt for their food. They must eat what is given to them or go hungry. Go hungry or go without essential nutrients.
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:23 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.147.185.201 |
very interesting Ian, the formula you gave was that for the weaning of joeys to be released? or all gliders to be released? I understand what Irish Cream is saying ,
since many times here until a glider reaches a certain age, they may not appreciate the joys of the the forageing type foods. The bases are full of people with young
joeys that are just not interested in their bugs and such, I had my glider several years before she would even touch a pinky mouse (story in itself)when an aimal is
forced to survive using only the wild to do so, I can see why the missing nutrients etc are needed, in essence, that causes them to look for those foods that provide
what is missing in their diet? If I am off base here, please let me know.
| Posted by: | Ian, iankitc@hotmail.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:24 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.147.185.201 |
David Lindenmayer works at the Australian Uni in Canberra I've yer to meet him I've met some of his students. We do a thing called stag watching where you are
given a big old tree they look a bit like antlers usually 150 to 200 yrs old. You take up possition before dark and stay about 3/4 hr after dark. During that time you
log all activity.Lead beatears are the target species but you see a whole range of wildlife. I understand that David can actually call down leadbeaters and that they
will climb over him.I've not seen it.
I think that Des works at Healesville Sanctuary just outside Melbourne It's like a zoo for native animals so he would probably know more than most.
I meet people from there I'll ask them.
I wouldn't doubt that if a s/glider came across a mouse it may eat it if hungry enough or a lizard but in the usual course of events I don't think that they would.
Antichinus are an arboureal marsupial their young could be at risk. In late winter and spring in Australia a lot of plants bloom recently I spotlighted a s/glider about
10 ft high in an acacia aeting either nectar or pollen
Marsupials lose young for many reasons or the parent is killed and the formula is for young gliders they say wean to honey water mix etc.
Cats are a problem here or their owners are to be preciseand s/glider fall prey to them animal shelters often get the results. These are reared and reintroduced to the
wild.So to me the expertise
is in short term care I'm a naturalist so I don't have any contact with people who keep them a pets
so I don't know what there situation is maybe I'll see there may be books on the subject, I hope this is of some interest to you I hate to bore you!
| Posted by: | Bourbon | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:24 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.147.185.201 |
You would never bore us, the biggest thing about gliders is that there is so little known, regarding their diets in captivity here in the states, we can only go by our
begininngs and work from there. What I asked is that another thread be started and transfer the last few posts here, and continue that conversation. I think that you
have a lot of good points there but we should start a different topic.
please don't think that in anyway shape or form, that we don't think these points are unimportant, they are that is why I asked they be put into another thread
| Posted by: | Irish Creme | | Subject: | I did it again | | When: | 10:25 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 24.147.185.201 |
Ok Ian, I see your point very clearly. Lizards would not normally be a food source for gliders in the wild. They would though, offer a source of animal
protein - were the gliders forced into a situation to eat them. Same thing goes for mice.
I was trying to make it clear that there is not really a shortage of live creatures in AU available for a meal.
And also that going back to the 'wild' habitat and habits of gliders - soy products arent to be found in their diet.
I agree with B. I'd like to see a thread to discuss rehabilitation and release... and the current issues in AU regarding sugar gliders. The best place to start is the
beginning - gliders in their natural surroundings.
Your posts arent a bore, by any means. The information you've offered is sought after and valued highly by many here. Thank you very much for contributing.
| Posted by: | Maria, dmeexotics@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 11:11 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.192.154 |
Ok, I was misremembering my glider studies. It actually stated that in spring and summer the chief food was invertebrates and that in captivity they were fed small birds and mammals. I somehow mixed those to facts together in my head. BTW, do you know what a "coleopteran" is? It is mentioned in a sentence describing the various insects that gliders eat, including beetles and small spiders. 
| Posted by: | Ian, iankitc@hotmail | | Subject: | good food guide | | When: | 11:26 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 203.164.3.165 |
coleopteron are beetles
| Posted by: | Pockets, tinytracks@cac.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 11:53 PM, 04 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.90.50.86 |
Ian
Here is a web-site you may want to see -
"Community Monitoring of Possums & Gliders in Mountain Forests" (David Lindenmayer)
<a href=http://cres.anu.edu.au/lindenmayer/monitoring/index.html>http://cres.anu.edu.au/lindenmayer/monitoring/index.html</a>
I follow as many of the Australian studies as I can 
| Posted by: | Ian, iankitc@hotmail | | Subject: | none | | When: | 12:10 AM, 05 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 203.164.3.165 |
The formula that I have for Marsupials is :
Formula 1
227g (8oz) warm water
57g (2oz) full cream powdered milk
2 teaspoons cornflower
1 level teaspoon Prolac
3 drops of pentavite
1 tiny pinch of salt
Then weekly a few drops of vitamin E oil for eye condition - or 1 drop daily.
similar.
Further information for Possums and Gliders;
Small young taken from a pouch are not fed the vitamen E concentrate.
For gliders add a desert spoon of honey to formula and wean to a honey water mixture, fruits, insects eg. moths also meal worms.
Vegetable baby food has been fed successfully.
This book was printed in the eighties, when I am able I will try to visit some experts to ask their opinions.
The taking from the pouch refers to casualties not to normal young.
This may be of some use or your knowledge may have passed this stage
| Posted by: | Pockets, tinytracks@cac.net | | Subject: | none | | When: | 12:38 AM, 05 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 216.90.50.86 |
Ian here are a couple of good Oz books -
"Care and Handling of Australian Native Animals"
by Suzanne Hand (1990)
"Caring for Australian Wildlife"
by Sharon White (1997)
Both of these were sent to me by a good friend who rescues Aussy native wildlife & has done so for many years.
| Posted by: | Ian, iankitc@hotmail | | Subject: | none | | When: | 7:46 AM, 05 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 203.164.3.165 |
Thanks Pockets,
As previously stated I haven't met David Lyndenmeyer but visiting the sight the name familar to me was Chris MacGregor I've met him twice on stagwatches. I sounds a good joj wandering around the forest counting possums but it can be lousy. The forests are damp with leeches and mosquitoes. There are often branches that are broken and just hang up in trees and often there are dead trees that are standing until you touch them and then they fall. When we go we wear old clothes with secure cuffs and wear gaiters and lots of insect repellant!. The other problem is the trip leader scouts out the area earlier and allocates you a particular tree, it can be a couple of hundred yards from the road in dense bush , you go in before dark and wait and watch for about 1 hr after dark then you have to get out. If the area is hilly then you have some sort of guide, if its flat you can be completely lost. and need someone to shine a spotlight to give you a guide, but its worth it. You get gliders flying over your head and land on trees in front of you. I've seen gliders fly at an angle for almost 100 yards along a road. Some times you see nothing, dems da breaks (as one of your countrymen has probably said) The Australian bush is magical, I'm English and I've been here for 15 years and I doesn't matter where you are, in wet forests, or in the arid centre the whole place has a quality of it's own.
I've remembered one of the members of my environment group is studing to be an animal technician so I'm trying to contact her at the moment ,maybe I'll get something tomorrow.
I don't really want to get into caring for wild life I think it takes a special kind of madness which I try to avoid. I'm mad enough in other ways.
My local group has an arrangement with the local carers that I can give them a one hundred dollar donation if they have an emergency that needs funds, and thats about as near as I want to get.
I like my wildlife in the trees.
2hourly feeds are not my cup of tea
| Posted by: | Ian, iankitc@hotmail | | Subject: | none | | When: | 7:46 AM, 05 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 203.164.3.165 |
Thanks Pockets,
As previously stated I haven't met David Lyndenmeyer but visiting the sight the name familar to me was Chris MacGregor I've met him twice on stagwatches. I sounds a good joj wandering around the forest counting possums but it can be lousy. The forests are damp with leeches and mosquitoes. There are often branches that are broken and just hang up in trees and often there are dead trees that are standing until you touch them and then they fall. When we go we wear old clothes with secure cuffs and wear gaiters and lots of insect repellant!. The other problem is the trip leader scouts out the area earlier and allocates you a particular tree, it can be a couple of hundred yards from the road in dense bush , you go in before dark and wait and watch for about 1 hr after dark then you have to get out. If the area is hilly then you have some sort of guide, if its flat you can be completely lost. and need someone to shine a spotlight to give you a guide, but its worth it. You get gliders flying over your head and land on trees in front of you. I've seen gliders fly at an angle for almost 100 yards along a road. Some times you see nothing, dems da breaks (as one of your countrymen has probably said) The Australian bush is magical, I'm English and I've been here for 15 years and I doesn't matter where you are, in wet forests, or in the arid centre the whole place has a quality of it's own.
I've remembered one of the members of my environment group is studing to be an animal technician so I'm trying to contact her at the moment ,maybe I'll get something tomorrow.
I don't really want to get into caring for wild life I think it takes a special kind of madness which I try to avoid. I'm mad enough in other ways.
My local group has an arrangement with the local carers that I can give them a one hundred dollar donation if they have an emergency that needs funds, and thats about as near as I want to get.
I like my wildlife in the trees.
2hourly feeds are not my cup of tea
| Posted by: | Maria, dmeexotics@aol.com | | Subject: | none | | When: | 10:10 AM, 05 Oct 2000 | | IP: | 205.188.195.32 |
LOL, I haven't done watches, but I've done camp out catch and release with my uncle. It definitely has its ups and downs. Thanks for the beetle info, I was assuming a bug of some sort but too lazy to look it up I'm looking forward to visiting Australia when my kids are a bit older. It has been a goal for several years. I had actually gotten as far as calling a travel agent to book a trip when a surprise (very welcome surprise) baby kept me from traveling
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