I just got my first pair of joeys a week ago. They are 9weeks oop. the lady I got them from was just feeding Dry glider feed and apples. I now have them started on the BML diet. Now I am hearing all the bad stuff about this diet but the hpw diet has stuff in it that i can't find around here and I have to order it off line. That is ok if the is the best Diet. I would just like to know what you all think of the 2 diets.

Hm, I personally use the HPW diet (note, you can get the High Protein Wombat powder online & the bee pollen should be available at any health/vitamin store, if not that's also available online).

There isn't 1 'best' diet. But there are many good/great diets. It's based off personal choice after research.

The reason I decided not to go with BML: I've read it's a little high in iron (hard on their liver) and it's a very strict diet. I liked the flexability, cost effectiveness, & ease of HPW.

Now, HPW is a little low in calcium, but can be modified slightly to counteract that to give you more flexability regarding fruits/veggies.

I hope I helped!

I'm not exactly sure what you've been hearing that's bad about the BML, but you should have any problems using it. The only time I've read anything bad about it was when our australian members were discussing it.

As Kat mentioned, there is no "best" diet. There is only personally preference. I use HPW, but as Kat also mentioned, it is low in Calcium (doesn't meet the 2:1 ratio). However, you can boost the calcium. You can discuss this with Candy or search the thread for topics where she discussed this.

Reasons why I won't use BML? I don't like the supplements used. It was a supplement created for reptiles and well.. Sugar Gliders are no where related to reptiles. =/ HOWEVER, there IS an avian supplement that the australians recommend. It is somewhere in an older post, and I do believe I might have bookmarked it.

I fed mine BML for awhile after I first got them. They refused to eat it. And I mean REFUSED. That told me everything I needed to know and I switched diets. Had no problems after that.

I have fed BML and HPW I now feed a more practical diet. My kids quit eating BML no matter what I did to it, they ate the HPW but I have had my concerns about that diet for awhile now. Whichever diet you chose just make sure to research, research, research!!!! If you have a glider knowledgable vethe/she may have some input/suggestions.

I love HPW and its ease (as easy as glider diets get ) I've never used BML but I hear its also excellent but more strict.

http://thepamperedglider.com/ <--- this site is the best place I've found for price on HPW powder and bee pollen. 11 batches of HPW for $33 (includes the bee pollen and shipping) is an awesome deal. I've never had issues with the woman who owns it and she ships quickly.

1 batch of HPW lasts my two gliders about 6-8 weeks depending on whose feeding them (me or my fiance )

Keep researching to find what's best for you!

I think the HPW is a fine diet, and is what I started out feeding my girls. I have since switched to the Blended Diet, as it is more flexible in the fruits and veggies you feed with it, and it's still very easy to make.

If you feed the HPW diet, please get the NOW brand calcium that is called for in the Blended Diet and add 3/4 teaspoons per batch!

Why would you add extra calcium? Mine have been on the HPW diet and Dahlia's fruit and veggie relishes for 2 years and they are healthy as can be. At least that's what the vet says anyway.

The added calcium makes it MUCH easier to make sure they get the right cal:phos and gives a lot more flexibility to what produce you can feed. But if you are feeding those relishes then that's already taken care of. It's mainly for people who can't or don't want to watch is SO closely.

I feed the Blended Diet and that is the first thing that gets eaten each night...very easy to make!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by slave4suggies</i>
<br />Why would you add extra calcium? Mine have been on the HPW diet and Dahlia's fruit and veggie relishes for 2 years and they are healthy as can be. At least that's what the vet says anyway.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
ed/luckyglider said that hpw is a bit low on a calcuim and to add in orange juice with calcuim and vit D in it. i have never used either diet before. i have only used lgrs diet.

I usually use the orange juice with calc/vit d or I use mango or papaya nectar.

The HPW diet without calcium has just over a 1:1 ratio. It is extremely difficult to make up the calcium to make it a balanced diet using just fruits and veggies.

If you make the HPW balanced, and then feed balanced veggies and fruit - your gliders will be at seriously reduced risk of developing HLP.

If your vet doesn't xray your gliders then he/she would have no way of knowing if they are developing HLP or not. So - they may look healthy - but why feed an unbalanced diet when it is so easy to fix?

DISCLAIMER: If you are not into diet or nutrition, this may not be for you. This is on point with the topic of this post but it in no way should be perceived as bashing. What follows are simple facts.

The HPW diete is an example of a "popular" diet in which the maker of it made a decision *not* to do a nutritional analysis and also not to publish a nutritional analysis. That puts you as the glider family in a "trust me" proposition.

In our observations in formerly using HPW with many rescues - it is OK but it does in fact fail to yield an optimal Ca:P ratio. This fact is known by its maker. We recommend bumping the calcium in it for optimal results.

BACKGROUND: We've done a lot of research on the HPW diet and other "popular" diets. The research on HPW started with correspondence with the Passwell company that makes the High Protein Womberoo Powder. Here is the data sheet they sent us that we used to crank into the formula for the diet:



Here are the calculations for the diet that we did at LGRS because no one had bothered to do it:



As you can see, the HPW Diet is 1.29:1 which is not 2:1 or very close.

This analysis is what brought to light the fact that you need to bump the calcium if you use this diet.

This in itself is not "bad" - but it is not an optimal basis for moving forward with a balanced diet because most fruits and veggies that you would feed on the side are upside-down to begin with.

So for people new to gliders or people who do not understand nutrition, they may *THINK* HPW is correct ratio-wise and then add stuff on the side that is also not correct and end up with a problem.

So if you use the HPW diet and then constantly feed corn, peas and carrots, you run the risk of HLP -because corn, peas and carrots are upside-down Ca:P wise.

We have even seen internet pages promoting HPW with relishes for side dishes that are upside-down so it is frustrating to see this.

A "quick fix" to this is to add calcium to HPW by either putting in some powdered calcium into the batch - maybe half a teaspoon - or by using calcium-fortified orange juice instead of water.

Here at LGRS, we began to use this diet for a while until I did the nutritional analysis. We got pretty good results with it, but we wanted to work on a cheaper, more balanced diet. That was the basis for the LGRS suggie soup diet. First, you should know that it is not necessary to buy expensive, imported HPW powder. You can use Trader Darwins Vanilla Flavored Soy, or you can use Arnold's choice possum milk replacer. You can also use fewer eggs and add dehydrated fly pupae to cut down on the cholesterol and fat. You can also cut down on some of the honey if your gliders are getting too fat.

There is an article on the LGRS suggie soup here in the gliderpedia and the nutritional analysis is also in the nutrition section:

http://www.sugarglider.com/gliderpedia/index.asp?LGRSSuggieSoup

We recommend taking the nutritional analysis of diets to your vet and let your vet give you guidance on diet. but we recommend you start with diets that actually have a nutritional analysis. If you decide to use other ingredients besides what's in the diets - do your own analysis first. Here on GG under Resources/Nutrition you will find a recipe calculator that lets you do your own figuring.

'Hope this helps

I have desided to put my babies on the HPW diet, as they don't eat the BMl so good. I am going to make the blended veggie and fruit mix. any advice is welcome. Still very new at this and just want my babies to have the best I can give them. Do I need to put the rep-cal in the HPW??? I need all you're help to get this right. ty

Ed, how much oj w/calcium should I put into my HPW? And as for valkyriemome saying to put 3/4 tsp into it per batch, does it have to be Now brand and if so why? I just made a batch of HPW and switched from BML to it. Why can I not use 3/4 tsp. Repcal that I already have? Just curious. One more thing, I noticed most if not all the fruit and veggie relishes include papaya. Is there a reason for it? Is it higher in some nutrient than other foods? I know you'll say just read the ratios we've worked out already but I'm not the best at math and don't understand too much about ratios. In the same hand, I want to ensure the boys get fed a proper diet with proper nutrients....please be kind people.

dont use the repcal i personally dont like that it is for reptiles and it is high in iron. i think valkyrimome says use the NOW brand because it is probably just a good brand to use. papaya has a low PH i think so that means more calcium in it is usable. you can trust Dahlia_2020's fruit and veggie recipes i use them and if you PM her she will answer any questions you have about her recipes. she also recommends to make a few or most of her recipes at once and feed different ones each night so they get a good verity and different nutrients from the recipes.

The NOW brand is recommended because:

1) RepCal is gritty. It settles to the bottom of the mix quickly, and is frequently left at the bottom of the bowl by gliders. Gliders do not seem to readily enjoy the gritty texture.

2) NOW brand is a NOT gritty. It blends into the mix better.

3) NOW is preferable to other "human grade" brands because it comes in powder form, not a pill or liquid. Therefore it can be measured correctly.

Candy objects to the relishes for the very reason that they rely heavily on papaya and bok choy. Those two are not "high calcium" foods, however, they are high ratio foods. They have very high Ca:Ph ratios, which help "push" the over all ratio of the relish.

If you use the calcium to make the HPW balanced, then you can really be more free to offer choice of veggies and fruit, without having to push the high ratio ones. The staple diet would be balanced, so you wouldn't have to make up the shortfall in the veggies and fruit.

I recommend 3/4 tsp Now Brand Calcium carbonate because that equals 900 mg calcium (the product contains 1200 mg calcium per teaspoon) You can use other products, but you must calculate the amount needed to add 900 mg based on the amount of calcium per teaspoon in the product you use.

Repcal calcium contains 1050 mg calcium per teaspoon - so just a bit less than a teaspoon would be 900 mg. It is however gritty and does not mix as well as the powdered Now Brand Calcium Carbonate.

Where would I get Now brand calcium? I'm not question Dahlias recipes at all. Just was wondering why pretty much every one included papaya. I'll have to get one tomorrow to start them off right with the HPW. Thanks guys for helping me.

Now brand calcium ebay or walgreens or walmart you can get it or food stores ^_^ I am going to do hpw with Now brand calcium now was going to do rep cal but think Now brand calcium will be better since it in alot of pet foods I see thank you candy .

Now Brand Calcium Carbonate can be found in health food stores that sell organic foods and vitamins.

On line you can get it here:

Error, missing URL. z

I have tried using the repcal in the HPW Mix months ago and I am a witness that it settles to the bottom, very gritty, and my gliders simply didn't eat it.

I am almost up with my latest batch of HPW so I will be making the next batch with Luckygliders's suggestion of using calcium rich OJ. This makes the most sense to me and seems the easiest to do. Not sure why even go with the using a calcium powder at all.

Oh, I should mention to those that have a repcal. I tried a few times to feed my gliders a mealworm that was covered in the powder. (simply tossed a meallie on the powder then picked it up and fed them.) works well but YOU MUST remember how much of the supplement you are feeding per day/week/month... basically a pain, since it is hard to gauge the exact amount, so i stopped.