Well,I'm new here. Have only had my girls for 11 days. I am the 3rd owner in the last 7 wks as best I can figure.
I'm given the pre packaged food and the vitamin/mineral powder that came along with the girls and that's what I've fed them up to now.
I'm working on bonding. The house they came from was TOTALLY filled with stress/trauma but what were skittish,posturing,blood drawing biting,crabbing little "snots" 10 days ago are now some more quiet,less crabbing,non posturing little Sugar Gliders behaving as they should since we haven't really bonded yet.
I got some advice on GC from a lady who suggested a mixture of chicken/applesauce baby food that she deems to be "liquid gold" and I'm here to tell you . . .it is just that and has been the key factor in my calming these little girls and getting them to accept my fingers without blood drawing bites.
Now that they are more calm and seem more settled I'm ready to get busy and find a diet that I consider to be more natural to them or a fairly good substitute natural diet.
I've done online research,have read several diets. . . Tarango Zoo Diet,the Leadbeaters Diet to name a few but today I read about a Chicken and Brown Rice Diet and I like this! It contains more protein than any other diet I have seen and though to be a nugget type feed it has been proven that it does not cause the Sugar Glider "lumpy jaw" as seen with other nugget/hard pellet feed.
I've also come across a bird website that sells a package of assorted dried insects that seems to be more along the lines of what I want to feed. Course,don't get me wrong I will also supplement with some live bait from time to time and not opposed to feeding a pinkie from time to time. I will also continue to feed diced veggies/fruits with maybe a little bit of honey (not wanting to feed too much honey as I worry about abnormally high sugar levels as in hypoglycemia).I will also continue to search for treats that they like. The girls tend to turn their noses up at peanut butter,yogurt,raisins,mango fruit and banana's but I know to offer them again later as their taste can change.
So what do you think about this diet mixture?

Thanks for your input. . .

The unfortunate thing is so many people feed so many different things, it's hard to say one is "good" or "better". To me, honestly, this isn't a balanced diet. They require protein, fresh fruits and vegetables every night. Another important thing is balancing the calcium and phosphorous ratios for the fruits and veggies. This can be tricky but gets easier over time. It's important for that ratio to be as close to 2:1 as possible. Too much phosphorous actually inhibits the absorption of calcium, leading to a number of health issues, including hind leg paralysis. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the ratios so if not, let us know and we can give you plenty of helpful links.

If the "Chicken & Brown Rice" glider food is the one developed by SunCoast it is NOT meant to be a complete diet. It is a supplement that is supposed to be fed with a protein source, fruits, vegetables and insects.

Here is the link to the SunCoast Diet
www.sugar-gliders.com/sugar-glider-diet.htm

There are other recognized diets you might want to consider before combining random foods to feed your gliders.

I have links to these diets on my web page.
www.gliderkids.com/contact.html

You will also find a link to an article by LuckyGlider explaining the Calcium/Phosphorus Ratio.

Diets are probably the biggest decision glider owners need to make. Choosing one that has been researched, has a good Ca:P ratio and is used by other glider parents with success (healthy gliders) is easier than trying to guess at your glider's needs and hope for the best.

I like this diet because it seems more natural and it has
Crude Protien 32%
Crude Fat 12%
Crude Fiber 6%
I know that it is not a complete diet but it is a formula that has been researched and developed by a renowned Animal Nutrionalist Dr.Ellen Direnfeld.
Yes it is used by SunCoast and a diet that has replaced the Zoo diet that they use to use.
I would most certainly supplement with dead and live insects as well along with the diced veggies/fruits that I am giving now.

Something else I find online is that no Sugar Glider food should be less than 40% protein and of all of the diets I've read about nothing is as high in protein as the Wholesome Chicken and Brown Rice diet. It is said to be a a good food staple.

Have you checked out the HPW diet? (High Protein Wombaroo)

Greatestgrammy....Unfortunately I don't think that anyone will step up and agree that any pellet food should be feed to your gliders. I can tell you that diets are a very contraversial topic and pellet food of any kind is sort of taboo. There are so many more natural choices for food out there and most of us use them. Pellet food has been a topic of great debate here as I am sure it has been on almost any glider forum short of the PPP or mill breeders forums. You will find much reading involving diets in old posts and you may even read some very harsh words used in them.

Now I know that some people will put a little bit of pellet food in their gliders cages as a sort of day snack but I also know that most gliders will stop eating them once they are eating a good tasty and healthy diet. My gliders are a perfect example. Once I started feeding them the 50% protein, 25% veggie and 25% fruit diet along with some leadbeaters they will not even touch a pellet anymore. They eat their good food at night and pretty much sleep all day. I have on occassion spotted a glider awake in the day taking a drink of water and passed them a treat through the cage bars but that's about it for day eating.

I know there are alot of diets out there and each individual choses one based on their choice of the cost, the ease of purchasing the product and the time they have to put into the preparation of the diet. I spend almost an hour each night in my kitchen doing something to prepare either that night's food or the bulk food I prepare to freeze for the next week or two. It became such a ritual that I actually had Cable TV installed in my kitchen and purchased a 19 inch flat screen TV for in there. Gotta watch my shows and I only have a few I like anyway....lol.

There is a Priscilla diet, BML, Leadbeaters, HPW and 52/25/25 to name a few. I would research as many as possible and ask questions on anyone if not all of them. I hope in someway I have been helpful. Feel free to PM me if you have any personal questions you'd like to ask.

I posted a thread about food and ratio's when I became a new glider owner and the people here were very helpful. I'm posting a link to it and maybe it will help you some.

http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16712

I had not checked out the HPW so I went directly to check it out and my only issue with it is the honey in it. I am wondering if honey is more "sugar" than Sugar Gliders need. I worry about raising the Sugar Glider's sugar levels higher than they should be.
Everything I have read thus far says that in the wild or their normal habitat they enjoy nectars which is more of a natural sugar than honey is. I am wanting to provide the more natural sugars and avoid things like honey.
I've read posts that ask why their Sugar Gliders shake uncontrollably and I suspect that some of this has to do with the honey that is in sooo many of the diets I have read about and the shaking is from a drop in their blood sugars as in hypoglycemia.
It is suggested that by freezing prepared feeds they can often times loose their nutrional value as if they were cooked so this is concern to me as well.
The fact that this Chicken/Brown Rice has been researched by a renowned Animal Scientist gives me the thought that this may be a better diet if fed in conjuction with proper vegetables/fruits/live or dead insects along with their vitamins/minerals.
I agree that there is no one diet that fits all animals or all owners and while I think this is the diet for me and my girls I could very well change my mind before I make my final decision and this is why I seek more information/input.

Right now I'm feeding the pellet food that came with them. I keep a bowl of the pellet form itself. The last couple of nights I have soaked some of the pellet feed in plain yogurt until soft enough to mash up and then I add some applesauce baby food and made that available. I have another bowl of diced apple,sweet potato,bell pepper and yellow squash. With the exception of the solid pellet feed they seem to go for everything else I have I have put out for them.
During the day because I'm working on the bonding I roust the girls up to give them lickety treats of chicken/applesauce baby food. They will take of this and go right back to sleep.
Once starting this chicken/applesauce baby food I have had the girls to start barking at night and while I did not respond to the barks in the past I think I am more inclined to do so since I've since read that when they bark they are not only looking for other Sugar Gliders but that they are speaking to me.

It has only been 12 days since I acquired the girls and I can certainly see a difference in them. Even in the last few days I have seen them develop a better sleeping pattern whereas it seemed like they slept all the time with only a very few hours out during the night.
They are in my bedroom where it is quiter and has virtually no traffic until I go in there. I never approach unless I announce my approach. Tonight I can hear them as they start to raise for the night which is something I hadn't heard before tonight. . . . hopefully I'm doing something right.

Alot of people substitute the honey in those diets with a no sugar added plain applesauce. I know I do as the same concern is with the sugar in honey. Where my diet mix calls for half water, half honey I do half water, and for the other half I do 3/4 applesauce and 1/4 honey. I add my calcium and vitamins in that but my Vet who has rescued gliders and has three of her own still suggested that I cut the Vitamin in half (not the calcium) and not give as much because of the possibilities of liver damage from over sublimenting with vitamins. I did as she suggested and don't use as much in my mix as I did before.

Unfortunately there are drawbacks for almost anything you do it seems. The problem's that seem to be the most common in the seizures and shaking in gliders are associated from liver damage or calcium deficiency (spelling?). I have talked to my Vet in great length about the diet for my gliders (she feeds BML) and as I stated above, it is very contraversal and I have read many debates on it. You are on a good path by reading and asking questions and you will ultimately find out what you are comfortable with and feel you need to feed your gliders. Your questions are always welcome and research is all you can do.

If you're giving them that much food at night I don't see the point in going through all the trouble of that pellet food. Pellet foods are full of fillers, and yucky stuff for gliders.

You also need to be careful and not overfeed, it doesn't take much to make a glider chubby.

I feed a fresh diet but i also have a formulated pellet in the cage an i don't have any problems i know everyone has their own opinion, i also know people that feed a glider pellet an have never had any problems with them they are happy healthy Gliders. Good Luck with what you decide an remember everyones opinion is different :)

There are some wonderful recipes in the resource section under nutrition. The ratios are already worked out. Just follow directions. My girl loves the ones I have made her so far.

Since having acquired my girls I thought them to be lacking in their diet because their coats didn't seem as thick as I thought they were suppose to be,their tails weren't very bushy and they seemed to be somewhat listless.They didn't seem to come out at night and play as much as they should have been doing per everything I have read about Sugar Gliders.
These first few days of Sugar Glider ownership have proven to be times of experimentation to see just what my girls will eat and what they won't.
I've been trying things suggested to me to see which works the best.
Please don't misunderstand what I'm going to say. . . but when one reads up on Sugar Gliders and their natural habitat diet,how is their calcium/phosphorous levels kept at the ratio that many have suggested to me? Like I say don't misunderstand my question. . .not meaning to be a know it all and not trying to be hard to get along with . . . these are just the things I'm mulling over and things I'm taking into consideration before making my final decision on a final diet.
In the wild they get their calcium from things like mice because as I have read,they even eat their tiny soft bones. They get protein from the bugs they eat and they get their phosphorus from the vegetation they eat...Eucalptus.
In trying to somewhat replicate their natural habitat diet,the Wholesome Chicken/Brown Rice Diet has less unnatural fillers and contains fewer non-pronounceable ingredients which I totally like.
Dicing up their vegetables and fruits I feel like I'm a Gourmet Chef. . . and I totally enjoy the time I spend in doing so.
I personally know one of our local pet store owners and have a great place to get crickets and pinkies that I will offer from time to time.I have even found an online source where I can purchase live/dried meal worms,wax worms or various other insects. All of these things I intend to supplement the Chicken/Brown Rice Diet with.
No where in anything that I read is there the mention of the Sugar Glider's diet containing honey which as I say is a concern for me as I'm afraid of obtaining too high of a glucose level in the girls. It is said that they like to feed on the Acacia Gum tree and drink the sap from them and that they feed on nectars so this is where I feel that a more natural sugar should be fed so I like the idea of peaches and applesauce babyfoods.

Oh I don't know,I want to do the best for my little girls. I want them around for a long time and in the same respect I don't want it to become such a chore in caring that it will eventually lead me to give up. I'm too hard headed to give up! ! ! ! And I ask that you not give up on me and my "hard headed" attitude of wanting to feed a more habitat friendly diet and my research to find what I find to be the more habitat friendly diet. HEll,who knows. . .before it is all over I may end up feeding the HPW or the BML diets. . .just gotta do some more research on the matter.

THANKS to ALL OF YOU. . .you have been so GRACIOUS to listen to me and give me Feedback. I have not been dissappointed in the feedback that I've gotten thus far and I appreciate being able to "run things across you".

Greatestgrammie (Susie)

No one will give up on your "hard headed" attitude....have you heard some of US? LOL The hardest part is choosing the diet. Once you have that part, it's not really much of a chore and certainly not so that you'd want to give them up. It sounds like you're pretty dedicated to being the best sugar mom possible. There's nothing wrong with challenging people's responses to get answers. If anything, it makes the rest of us do more research and learn as well.

I don't like pitching in on the diet subject too much but I will say one thing....No matter HOW MUCH research you do, if your suggies don't eat it, your diet is crap!!

I fed BML at first but my fuzzies decided after a few months that they hated it. So I had to switch to HPW and all 5 LOVE it and have for a long time now. Good luck with your diet search! I'm sorry I can't answer any of your questions about it...I've almost been here for a year but I'm still very much a noob!!!

I personally don't know that much about gliders in the wild and if or how they keep their ratio's of Ca:PH level. Maybe they don't and maybe they don't live as long in the wild.

I do know that if you don't keep them as level as possible they can and possibly will develope HLP "Hind Leg Paralysis". I know their are other problems that can arise from being on a captive diet like liver problems for one.

All anyone of us can do is LOVE our babies, try and feed them properly, give them a friend to always love and play with, spend out of the cage play time with them, make sure they have the biggest best cage and toys you can afford, get them the medical care they need when problems arise and continue to do you research. If you do all that then you truly have GILDERITIS.

There has been some recent debate over the amount of honey in the HPW diet. Some people are cutting the amount of honey in half and using unsweetened applesauce in place of the remaining half. This is something you should consider.

I will not disagree over giving them some dry, hard pellets on a daily basis. However, it is not for dietary means - but for teeth cleaning. Personally, I use Evo dog or cat food. It is meat based and all ingredients are natural. Each of my gliders gets about 5 to 6 pieces each night as part of their meal. They love it and always eat it. But again - it is for dental health.

Honestly, I dont agree with the diet you are currently feeding. It is not meeting their requirements. With gliders, you have to give them the correct calcium to ratio or you are going to have sick gliders on your hands. I know you said you are also giving fruits and veggies. Can you tell us what fruits and veggies you are giving? This is NOT to pick on you - but to help you get started.

suppressedtearz. . . .,I've thought about that but from where I picked these girls up at,I suspected that they were somewhat stressed so I have spent the last 14days trying to get them "evened out" so to speak. Their fur and tails are looking much better.As I get their diet figured out I'll be cutting back.

kyro298. . . .being upset with another Glider website I was not getting much in the way of answers except for one lady whom I now call my friend and we now IM,she had PM'd one of the posters as to how shoddy she thought that the website had treated me and she was told that I was more or less looking for answers that fit what I wanted to hear which is FAR from the truth. . . I just need info and reassurance and I am not looking for answers that fit what I want to hear. This kind of attitude has always labeled me "a hard headed" person and yes I am about some things in life but not here where I have so much to learn. In the future,anything I can help anyone else with as far as what I learn I'm willing to do. THANKS for your input.

Goldwinger. . . .I have read that in the wild Sugar Gliders only live about 9yrs and I suspect it is because they don't get the balanced diet that we with "Glideritis" try to provide our "babies". Thus far these little girls only seem to improve more and more every day.
The place where I got them has way too much in the way of stress and when I got them they were not very "sociable" but just this morning. . . DAY 14 of ownership,the most tempermental one of the bunch did actually seem to want to jump from her cage door to me to get her finger treat but at the last moment she backed off.
I am starting to hear less crabbing,more chatter and ocassional barking so I feel that atleast for now they are getting some of what they were and are needing in their temp. feed and their permanent love,attention and protection. They are becoming active as I have read that they are suppose to be opposed to seemingly chosing to sleep MOST of the time. I feel so very very accomplished at this moment and even if this is something that will be short lived. . . please don't burst my bubble. . . . .LOL LOL LOL
I too agree that some hard/dried pellet feed is good for the same reasons you state. . . teeth cleaning but in what I have read,too much of too hard pellet food can cause what they deem to be "lumpy jaw". Now just what this is I do not know yet but I'm still researching.
I've either read or have been told that long term feeding of the pelleted feed can cause abcessed teeth and I can only assume this happens by their breaking off of teeth in their efforts to eat it or it may stem from the abrasive scratching of the enamel of their teeth or their gums which get infected and thereby infection a tooth.
The reason I like this Chicken/Brown Rice diet is because it has less incidence of "lumpy jaw" and by all appearances of the feed that is shown it appears to be more of a "flaked pellet" which intrigues me. The fact that is does contain more natural ingredients and fewer things that I can't pronounce seems healthier.

Rita. . . I DON'T take any offense to your help and I welcome any suggestions because I want to be the best Glider Momma I can possibly be.As with any suggestion whether I give them to others or they give them to me. . .we can take those that fit what we are seeking and forget those that don't.
Right now I'm using GLIDER GRUB but this is temp. til the girls seem to even out which they are seeming to do. I leave a few of the dry pellets out for them, I soak some pellets til soft with some yogurt and then mash it up so to mix it with some baby applesauce. In another bowl I have the diced fruits/veggies. Those veggies up to now have included apple,mango fruit,raisins,sweet potato,yellow squash and sometimes some hint of avocado.(I'm still learning which fruits/veggies they will or won't eat) Every other day I sprinkle a small amount of Vitamin/Minerals on the veggies/fruits.
I've tried them on diced orange and they seem to like it but I have been warned against too much acid in their diet. I've tried them on hard boiled egg and they don't even touch it. Yogurt alone they ignore but I add some applesauce and they reluctantly take it.
During the day and in my efforts to teach them that my fingers are "friendly" I will roust them about from time to time and feed them a treat of mixed meat and applesauce babyfood that they literally lap up. Giving them this is my effort to help them with hydration during the day as I have read this is a concern. To avoid dehydration it is recommended to leave a piece of bread in their cage so that they can much on it during the day but I don't see bread being that beneficial and only see it as wasted "filler". They have enough water that they can get if they want and I think this should be the only means of hydration if they are being fed properly and given enough beneficial "lickety treats.
ANY and ALL suggestions are very helpful in making my final diet decision though I think I've pretty much decided on the Chicken/Brown Rice Diet supplemented with dried/live insects,maybe an occassional pinkie,fruits/veggies,vitamin/mineral powder etc.

WELLLLLLL,I've been online now for almost 4 hours straight and if I thought I was confused before now I can tell you that really finding out that I can get even more confused.
The Wholesome Chicken/Brown Rice Diet. . .The Brisky Accu Feed. . . .Happy Glider Feed. . .it just goes on and on and on.

I start looking at fruits and vegetables with a 2/1 ratio of Calcium/Phosph.and find that some of the vegetables that I'm informed that I should be feeding the girls are not the ones that I find have the 2/1 ratio. IF I go by what I have found on this matter I see that Cabbage,Chichory Greens,Chineese Cabbage,Dandelion Greens,Kale,Loose Leaf Lettuce,MustardGreens,Parsley,Spinach and Watercress are the only vegetables that fit this ratio BUT am under the impression that most of these should not be fed to Sugar Gliders.
I see that oranges are the only fruits that contain the 2/1 ratio.

This shouldn't be this hard! ! !

Greatestgrammie: I think that by combining a bunch of different fruits and veggies, a specific combination creates a 2:1 ratio. That's why you see so many fruit smoothies and veggie relishes. It takes time and research to create these fruit/veggie dishes with the right ratio. I don't really understand the ratios which is why I stick to other people's recipes myself.

As for life expectancy. I googled it and came up with anywhere from 4 to 8 years. It is expected that this has more to do with predators and natural selection more than their diet. From the many sites I've looked at on longevity in the wild, this was one thing they all seemed to agree on. But I also agree that by giving them a diet that is more suited to them than their diet in the wild we are helping give them a longer life. Of course we're also protecting them from predators, so who really knows.

It sounds like you are trying your best to do all the research you can do and to be the best suggie parent you can be. I for one really appreciate the fact that you ask questions. And I appreciate even more that you READ ALL OF OUR ANSWERS. And you consider them, you don't just turn the advice away. That is fantastic.

Other than that I am really new at this too. So I don't really have any more advice.

fadedrainbows. . . YES I read each and every answer. I am like a sponge and though one might not see something new in a current answer,I almost always find something in the new answer that I soak up.

Well,like a dumb sh-t I thought I had to bring the girls in the livingroom with me so as to play/bond with them. I "peeled" them out of their pouch and at first they were at ease with moving around my legs but then the more aggressive one decided to take off across the room though I kept trying to present the pouch to her and then all of a sudden the more timid one took off in another direction.
I live in the country,we have field mice that can and do come in during the winter months so I have mouse traps set and have mouse poison out. . . .I was in a total panic to get both girls. . .one going in one direction and the other one headed for under my sofa. We made it,I've learned a VALUBALE lesson but in gathering the girls up, the more aggressive one bit me again BUT this time NO BLOOD as in the beginning. The bite startled me and as a reflex I jerked back but when it is all said and done with....She didn't bring blood with her bite. I feel like I've made a HUGE step in only 15 days of ownership! Like I've said before. . . if this isn't true,don't tell me otherwise. . LOL LOL LOL

Though not til this very minute did it hit me but this is the most lively day time activity I have seen out of these girls. It was as if they felt comfortable enough or safe enough to venture out and though probably only exploring I see this too as a means of "growth" in them.
For now and until I really get to know these little girls it is and it will continue to be a learning experience for both of us. BOTH our FIRST experience with BONDING!

Ratios are very confusing. It took me a while to figure them out, but once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy. Some people will select just one veggie and one fruit a night to feed their glider as it's easier to balance the ratio, but I didn't want to do that. I wanted to give my gliders as wide a variety as possible, while still staying true to a 2:1 ratio. 

Thing you have to realize, is it isn't even about just the ratios. You have to take into consideration how much is absorbed and how much is wasted. There is an extremely pesky thing in a LOT of green veggies and even a few fruits called oxylates. This little terror, depending on how much there is of it in the veggie, wipes out the calcium benefits by prohibiting it's absorbtion. For example, a lot of people like to feed spinach to their gliders, and it is an excellant source of vitamins and minerals. But it is NOT a good source of calcium, because even though it's high in calcium, less than 5% can be absorbed because of a high level of oxylates. Similiar situation with collard greens. VERY high in calcium, but only about half of it can absorbed. 

Good news is, that recent studies show that oxylates only seem to effect the food that they are attached to. They don't hurt the calcium levels in other food you're eating at the same time. You can still feed these veggies to your gliders... You just can't count on the calcium from them and have to adjust the meal accordingly.


After months of researching the different diets, I settled on feeding HPW as I felt that it was the best that was available. I spent a lot of time researching all the different diets out there, and I know how frustrating it can be to feel like you're beating your head against a brick wall. As soon as I thought I had it all figured out, I'd find something out that would blow everything else out. 

One thing I've done the past few months is try to create a selection of recipes that I could feed my babies along with their HPW that really made the most of the 2:1 ratio while giving my babies a very large variety every week as part of a rotation. I feel like I've done that. I posted all of these recipes here as I wanted to help out those who were still confused about the ratios. So regardless of what diet you decide one, these would compliment it well. I feed every single one of them to my gliders and they are very well received. I do blend my veggie relishes into babyfood consistency as I've learned that my gliders - as sapsuckers - do a much better job with it and they eat it all without having to suck on anything and then spit out what's left, which means they are getting all of the nutritional benefits the different veggies offer. The fruits however, are cut into small pieces as my gliders arent the least bit fussy about eating any type of fruit. So it's up to you (and your gliders) what's the best way to give it to them. If they eat it without having anything blended, then good for them. But if they are picky, then you will have to blend. Further info is given in the descriptions of each recipe. Some of it is repetitive, but some of it will be info that deals directly with the recipe.  

Recipe links

Fruit Cocktails (6)

Papaya/Strawberry/Blueberry/Raspberry/Blackberry Fruit Cocktail
http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=74

Papaya/Apple/Pear/Cantaloupe Fruit Cocktail
http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=75

Papaya/Watermelon/Banana Fruit Cocktail
http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=32

Papaya/Mango/Blueberry Fruit Cocktail
http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=41

Papaya/Peach/Pineapple/Honeydew Fruit Cocktail
http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=61

Papaya/Kiwi/Strawberry/Banana Fruit Cocktail
http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=72


Veggie Relishes (2... I'll be publishing a #3 and #4 in a couple of days once I finish tweaking them.)

Veggie relish #1
http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=52

Veggie relish #2
http://www.sugarglider.com/nutrition/viewrecipe.asp?item=58

Greatestgrammie - I am so glad your glider exploration story had a happy ending. Bringing them out during the day and letting them run around may not be the best way of bonding with them. I am sure the need to chase them down and capture them for their own safety was stressful for them.

If you have a zippered bonding pouch, use that during the day for a few hours. This will give them a chance to get used to your movements, the sound of your voice, scent etc. to reinforce their bonding with you.

In general, the day time hours are when gliders need to sleep. If they are not sleeping when you are carrying them around you may want to let them stay in their cage for several undisturbed hours. A rested glider will be more friendly and playful in the evenings.

Since you have known hazards (mousetraps) in your home, you might want to do as many of us have and get a screen tent to play with your gliders in the evenings. Tent time gives them a chance to run around out of cage in a safe environment. At the same time they can come to explore you, get treats and really get to know you.

I have two tents and both are great. The blue one on the left is a Genji pop up tent. The multi-color one is a child's tent made by Pacific Play Tent purchased from Target.com.



I have two colonies and spend about 2 hours each evening (8:30 - 10:30 or 11) with one colony or the other in the tent. I keep the lights off in the room except a small TV I can see from the tent. These are the times I really get to enjoy my gliders and see their cute little personalities.

The Six Rascals


The Animaniacs

It will take time for bonding, but them licking treats off of your fingers is a great step in the right direction. If you can gliderproof a bathroom, let them out in there one day. I bring my laptop in there for light and to listen to music and it will give them time to exercise and see you as this cool fun thing to jump on and off of. My first glider I bonded mostly with in her pouch at first, but when I started letting her out the bonding went much quicker!

As far as diet-I agree that it doesn't matter if you have the best diet on earth if they won't eat it. Being an intelligent animal they can be very very picky over what they eat, and even their likes change from day to day. That is why I like the 50/25/25 diet as it offers plenty of options and keeps them interested in their food. I used to be a zookeeper and with our monkeys (Japanese Macaques and Black Tufted Earred Marmosets) we would enrich them with a variety of styles of approved food and cut them up in lots of different ways. I am for whole food over a blended food (unless your gliders refuse to eat a healthy veggie or fruit and you have to disguise it via blending), because my girls seem to enjoy being able to hold and manipulate their food.

Here's hoping everything goes well with your new gliders! Keep us updated!

When I read about what Gliders eat while in the wild I read that they eat. . . . Blossoms,Flower Nectar,Eucalyptus Sap,Acacia Gum and insects. This is where my dilemma comes into play because I haven't seen any Sugar Glider proposed diets that come anywhere close to it. Everything is either a processed pellet food or a feed that we as humans have come up with.
Don't get me wrong by any means,I'm NOT saying that human devised diets are wrong because too many of you have Gliders that have lived long healthy lives on these diets but beside the potential of them smelling musky why aren't more insects (whole/loaded or dried)a part of these diets more than they are? Can this be replace with cooked chicken,pork,fish and maybe some beef?
I can see where replacing blossoms/nectar,sap and gum could be somewhat done with the fruits that are served but what are the vegetables replacing? Maybe they aren't replacing anything but are adding more phosphorus? I think all in all this is what is so confusing to me. . . .How do people come up with the diets that they serve?

Right now I'm leaning towards feeding the Wholesome Chicken/Brown Rice diet,serving up some Eucalyptus pellets,dicing/slicing dark green/dark orange vegetables and feeding a variety of fruits.
Somewhere I read that canned Mackerel could be served and I have been told that Shrimp could be fed. Is this an option?
I've read that some people feed Monkey Biscuits and sometimes those are served with fruit juice but when I read the ingredients in Monkey Biscuits they seem to be nothing more than some kind of dog biscuit so this adds to my confusion.

Another thing that concerns me. I'm told that the Glider food that these little girls came with is junk and should not be fed,so I have to wonder if the powdered vitamins and minerals are considered to be junk as well?

I do sincerely appreciate your inputs and I'm NOT trying to be hard to help. THANK SOOOOOO MUCH! !

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I can see where replacing blossoms/nectar,sap and gum could be somewhat done with the fruits that are served but what are the vegetables replacing? Maybe they aren't replacing anything but are adding more phosphorus? I think all in all this is what is so confusing to me. . . .How do people come up with the diets that they serve?

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That's actually a very good question that I hope someone can answer. Random people always seem to be in my house and as a result I've had 5 or 6 different people ask me pretty much the same questions "Is this what they eat in the wild?" "If their food is this complicated how can they even survive in the wild?" And many things along those lines. And while I feed HPW and pick among the various fruit and veggie dishes on this site, I too am very interested in this question. I don't think this means you're trying to be hard to help at all! In fact you keep asking many questions that I have wondered about but just figured all these people know more than I do so I've just done what they've done. So thank you for asking.

With the whole fruit cocktails and the veggie relishes do you have to use the HPW diet or can you use the BML diet with that?

Using all insects instead of chicken or egg is not a good idea. Insects have much more fat than protein. If gliders ate the same volume of meal worms as they would chicken, egg or one of the recognized diets the amount of fat would be too high.

In the wild the gliders' diet varies seasonally - some times saps are more plentiful and other times insects are. Gliders in the wild also eat eggs, baby birds etc. Flowers they eat are also seasonal foods. Wild gliders also get a lot more exercise gliding 100 ft from tree to tree plus a lot of climbing in tree tops - we cannot match that activity level in our homes.

The recognized glider diets have been used for years and result in many healthy gliders. Yes they can be complicated to understand, but it sounds like you are trying to re-invent the wheel by trying to find a more natural diet for your glider. It is difficult to understand the nutritional needs of our gliders because there are not definite guidelines of their needs. There are not "recommended daily requirements" for gliders.

That is why most folks choose a diet that has been previously researched and has proven to be healthy for gliders - demonstrated by the long lives of many gliders. You would need to do do a lot of research to create a diet you feel is more natural - and still make sure it meets the gliders nutritional needs.

And also...about the canned mackerel. No. Once again just like any other canned food, the salt in it is completely outrageous.

Please do not feed the eucalyptus pellets-they literally killed one of mine. More explanation towards the bottom of the first page:

http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24413

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Originally posted by Candy

The recognized glider diets have been used for years and result in many healthy gliders. Yes they can be complicated to understand, but it sounds like you are trying to re-invent the wheel by trying to find a more natural diet for your glider. It is difficult to understand the nutritional needs of our gliders because there are not definite guidelines of their needs. There are not "recommended daily requirements" for gliders.

That is why most folks choose a diet that has been previously researched and has proven to be healthy for gliders - demonstrated by the long lives of many gliders. You would need to do do a lot of research to create a diet you feel is more natural - and still make sure it meets the gliders nutritional needs.

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Amen.

Alright, I've stayed out of this thread as much as possible, just to see where it would go without me jumping on the band wagon anymore than necessary (such as providing links to my ratio balanced recipes) but now I think I'll hop right on board.

Let me start by saying that I'm in no way attacking anything you are trying to do here. I'm not trying to be mean, or hostile so please don't take this the wrong way. You came here for help and everyone else's opinion, so you are about to get mine. I ask that you please be open minded and listen to what I'm about to say.

I understand where you are coming from. You want to provide the best possible nutrition for your gliders as possible. I can understand that, as I went through that and still am, if I'm being completely honest. But what I'm seeing is you bouncing all over the place, yet still determined to hang onto what you thought from the very beginning to be the best concept of a diet for your gliders, despite many MUCH more experienced owners getting on here and trying to gently redirect you in another direction.

All of this seems to stem from your belief that you need to mimic a natural, wild gliders' diet as closely as possible. Well, I can tell you right now, that if you do that, you are probably going to fail with your gliders. No amount of wishing otherwise is going to change that.

For starters, a glider in the wild, their natural life span is only 2 to 4 years. I don't know where you are getting 6 to 8 years, but that is not legit. Disease and predators pick gliders off at a very young age in the wild long before any malnutrition could. That's just the way it is.

Two, the gliders in captivity are VERY different from the gliders in the wild. Most of the nutritional needs that our pet gliders have are the result of the fact that a wild, exotic animal was removed from its natural habitat well over a decade ago and severely inbred to make so-called domestic pets. Chances are, two gliders on opposite sides of this country are more closely related than two gliders on opposite sides of a jungle/forest in their natural habitat. Is this sad? Yes. But can this be changed? No. This is what happens when a relatively small group of animals is imported into a country and the resulting novelty/pet generations born are technically inbred and all trace back to these original source bloodlines. Its the same with many types of animals who are not native to this country.

I've been in the genetic game for a VERY long time with many different species. I've also been involved with gliders off and on for close to a decade now. I've seen first hand how things have changed with these guys. A lot of it has to do with mill breeders, and indescriminent inbreeding. The ripple effect that this has caused is wider spread than most could ever realize and will effect these guys for countless generations to come. The simple fact is, that if you took one of our pet gliders, and turned them loose in their ancestors' natural habitat, they wouldn't survive very long. This is because of the fact that we have pretty created a genetically altered hot house flower that requires more of an "upkeep" than the original source did. They are NOT anything like the wild gliders they originated from, no matter how much they may look like them (and even that is up for debate). As such, the diet that they might have been able to subsist on once upon a time, no longer really applies to them. And to assume that the diet that they ate in the wild was "perfect" is a very dangerous assumption. There are countless examples throughout the animal kingdom of the difference between animals genuinely receiving the BEST nutrition, versus simply surviving through scavaging. And if there is one thing to say about gliders, is that they will just about eat ANYTHING. Doesn't mean that its good for them. But surviving the night or season is a far cry more important in the wild than achieving longevity.

Now, I'm not going to go into what diets are better than others. There is plenty of info on each diet available online for you to look into on your own without me rehashing it. You have leadbeaters, priscella's, BML, HPW, 25-25-50, and a couple others that are PROVEN to be decent diets for gliders if used properly. Some are better than others, and they are ALL open for improvement. This is because there is NO 100% proven diet. Anyone that tells you otherwise is lying. Gliders are exotics. They are not domestics. This is not something you can ever forget. But on the same token, you can't put your pet gliders in the same category as wild ones and there are some things that you are either already feeding your gliders or planning to that some of us know to be a bad idea.

If you have an issue with the above listed diets, then you can find modifications of them from people who have been in the game longer than you have. Ed from LuckyGlider Rescue has a modified version of the HPW diet that he has perfected over the years that you can find the recipe for on this site. He currently has close to a 100 gliders in his rescue and on his formula, and countless previous rescues and clients also feed it with exceptional results. Considering that most of his gliders came to him on death's door, the impressive results speak for themself. Kazko, one of the moderators of this board, has his diet that is also a favorite on this board. Candy also has hers available on her website.

Some of the people on this board have been in the game with gliders for a VERY long time. They've spent countless hours, days, weeks, even months studying nutrition and all of the aspects that play into it. I know I have. There is a reason why we feed what we do. Please spend more time researching and listening with an open mind before you set your mind on a diet. There are no easy answers when it comes to gliders as I'm sure you are finding out and BLESS YOU for asking the tough questions. There are plenty of glider owners who never do and their pets suffer for it. We're all in the dark about a lot of things where our babies are concerned. But despite this, some of us see more of a light at the end of the tunnel than most. I am confident that with more time and research, you will be a part of the later group. Good luck and welcome to the glider community.