tootles, please contact Debbie, as she has used both the BML as well as the PML, in fact the only reason she stopped using the BML, was because she had a glider die of hepatitis of the liver, and she "thought" it was the BML, only later to find out it was due to aflatoxin.. she still will not say that the bml is harmful in any way shape or form.

now seeing that Jett feels that the BML is nothing similiar to the healsville diet, we have to ASSUME she has already run through the nutritional breakdown, or at least hope she has.. to say that.. and compared them to the figures that are already out there on the net concerning the bml then we also have to assume that she already has found the info that we have found, and is making educated judgments.

after all she is writing to people whose gliders are dying and telling them it was the BML that killed their glider.. which by the way after the last one I really had to laugh.. since it was an SM and the glider died chewing a hole in itself. and your telling them you know it was the BML.. I see how that correlation could come up in her mind...."not" The funny thing is jett, is the people that you are sending letters to .. thinks your a joke.. an owner in australia of 16 months, not experienced in any of the medical problems here. telling people to follow a diet plan that has stuff in it that is not readily available, and trying to scare them into using what??? feed anything you want from the table? those days are gone.. .. i didn't have to say anything.. you did it all yourself. why would anyone send you vet reports??? you are who??? in fact you sound soooo much like someone else that lost their credibility in the community, doing very much the same thing.. speculations and suppositions, with NO facts or experience to back it up.

but I have to say that Jett yes, you and Eric are quite a team.. you both have had very very little EXPERIENCE working in th medical areas and the diet areas here in the states with the gliders to come up with such proposterious ramblings, regardless of what it is your talking about. from books, to rescues, to vets, to diets.. you have managed to try to disregard everything that has already been done. and if you don't know whats been done, then how can you say anything about them.

I have seen you try to discredit Peggy and really again had to laugh when you tried to do it with pockets. it shows how much knowledge you do have about the community you are a part of.

Jett you yourself said we don't have access to the natural flora and fauna, here, therefore the next best thing is nutritionally trying to match them.. how close are any of the diets??? I don't see healsvilles numbers anywhere on the net, so nutritionally how do you KNOW what is even close? you wanna come up with a good diet? do it.. but you will have to start where we all started.. and that is right where you are.. get those figures for everything they feed their gliders in the sanctuaries, all of them, as well as the zoos, get the "papers" together, send the emails to the universities and to the top people in the fields.. get their figures from them regarding the nutritional breakdown.. then you need to contact the vets here, the rescue homes, the nutritional, medical, behavioral people here in many different aspects.. but it must be done with the gliders here, you know the ones, the ones that have been inbred, and the ones that have unknown histories, and the ones that have been shipped in from gawd knows where. The ones that have health issues due to negligence and ignorance. ALL of the gliders, gliders thsat have been on many many diets.

then I HOPE and PRAY that you do find another healthy alternative to the gawd awful diets that are being fed..

Eric, start opening your home to the thousands of rescues out there with severe medical problems, then you too will see for yourself, the posts that have been made is exactly why no one wants to give you all any info.. simply because you don't want the truth or facts, all you want to do is complain about what others have done, simply put, because you haven't done anything.. this site has been up for how long, and during that time, eric you were gliderless most if not all of the time. your in Texas.. the biggest problem spot in the country regarding rescues and medical problems. Eric.. we still have about 400 gliders there that could use new homes and many that need some medical care, open your door to 10 of the worst ones. At least TRY to make a positive impact in the glider community.

Have you even spoken to the people that have the rescue homes, the ones that see these gliders on a regular basis? have you even spoken to the vets of these people? NO??? why not???

all these years while most of the community was working with finding the info from australia, and working with the labs and vets here.. what were you doing? sitting here, complaining and ripping what everyone else was and is doing apart. you haven't changed, neither has this board, that is why the only technical discussions you will get are the ones you create yourself,

Mel, Moorie, and Jewels3.. I commend all 3 of you, you all travel to many boards, you learn as much as you can, and try to help others. that is what it is about..

is diets controversial? sure.. in every animal community as well as the humans.. but you can't learn anything if you are close minded. Jett, if you would have read the posts, and have worked with the gliders here, that do suffer from these problems, and you see what many gliders are fed.. rather than trying to prove something is wrong, you would be surprised at how much you would learn.

It is too bad that this is the way you all want to learn, at the backside of torment.. I applaud pockets for her response to you.. after all it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you really don't want to do anything but make yourselves seem knowledgeable, you don't want info you just want something or someone else to blow apart on here. for those on here that want truth, or info, they can get it.. it is already out there..

it is so sad to see that this is not about education, Terry, maybe a poker board would be the best thing here, at least maybe Eric would have experience in what it would be teaching.


as far a researching my childrens food, i will tell you, no i didn't I took what was said, and what was tried and worked the best, and i went with it. i didn't have the knowledge nor the desire at that time, to do any more than what i did.. on the other end of the coin, i didn't sit back and listen to just one person or even 2, I talked with many parents of children.. and talked with grandparents, and talked with the drs.. i chose what I thought was the best way to go.. as time went on, i fed based on what I was learning as I went. No I didn't go to gerber and asked where they got their info from , but i did read the lables myself. I didn't go to the makers of similac, and ask them where they got their figures from, but i did find out myself what was in the product. I didn't go to each of the dairys and ask what they were feeding their cows..
I fed my children the best that I thought was good for them. based on the research i did do.

I highly respect carolyn mcpherson, for everything she had done and the movements she had made with the gliders.. I never once asked her where she got the figures for her diet plan, nor did i ask her how she aquired the vass amount of info she readily gave. i went out and did my own, if i wanted to make a difference i learned as much as I could, got information from many many sources, and continued to follow through, I was totally totally against the cat food, till I spoke with her directly, willing to learn, wanting to understand it better..

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Originally posted by Bourbon
Mel, Moorie, and Jewels3.. I commend all 3 of you, you all travel to many boards, you learn as much as you can, and try to help others. that is what it is about..

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Thank you Bourbon , it is what it's about, and without healthy discussion how can we move forward? We can't, simple. Ok, maybe none of the captive diets are the 'ideal' but all we can do is our best, we all love suggies dearly which is why we're here arguing about what's best to feed them!

quote:

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Originally posted by Bourbon
[
it is so sad to see that this is not about education, Terry, maybe a poker board would be the best thing here, at least maybe Eric would have experience in what it would be teaching.

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I find this site bashing terribly annoying. If you don't like this site please move on. There are plenty of other places to push your opinion around. Maybe it might be more welcomed by the masses than it is here.

This is a split topic as these comments are largely off topic from the original discussion. The originating discussion can be found HERE

Who is Debbie an where do I find her?

tootles, Debbie is Pockets.

I know she is a member on GC (screen name Pockets) but I think her pm box may be full. Sorry I don't know her email addy off hand.

Tootles, you can find lots of info about Pockets' diet on the various forums. Do a search on PML and/or look at the stickys in the various forums. She has posted on pertinent threads or others have posted her emails.