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moorie Glider  131 Posts
As of yesterday, I'm gutted to have to tell you but grapes have claimed the lives of 2 more animals belonging to some very good friends of mine in the UK. I'm not going to say what kind of animal as they will come forward and announce it themseleves when they feel ready, all I will tell you is it's not suggies, dogs or parrots.
The past reports of dogs and parrots are easy to dismiss as the dogs are in the US and they belong to strangers, I've fed all my animals grapes and there's never been any problems, but now it's too close to home to ignore (or bury your head in the sand!)
IF YOU ARE FEEDING GRAPES, STOP NOW!! It has NOTHING to do with different digestive systems or how they function. I believe it is the insecticide DDT that is STILL used in SOME countries today. The DDT is sprayed whether it's directly on to the crop or not, some residue will settle on to the plant BUT ALSO it is washed INTO the soil and is ABSORBED by the plant and will be passed on to the fruit growing on the plant. So washing the fruit thoroughly WILL NOT wash away the DDT, it's actually IN the fruit.
I would imagine the toxins build up in the system to the point that the kidneys cannot cope with trying to erradicate it, and they fail, which sadly happened to my friends animals.
I know there's going to be people who will say "I'm not going to stop feeding them to my suggies because they love them!" but ask yourself if it's worth it! Your suggies won't love you any less if they don't receive another grape, but how will you feel if the grape you've handed your suggie is laced with a very potent toxin?
I should also say that in the US and in the UK DDT is NOT used, so Californian grapes MAY be ok, but again is it worth the risk? I won't be feeding a single grape to any animal ever again, it makes me wonder whether WE should even be eating them!!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T IGNORE THIS!!
moorie Glider 131 Posts Well it seems not, according to the ASPCA report, certain pesticides have been ruled out - but it doesn't say WHICH have been ruled out! Apparently dogs have reacted to home grown grapes AS WELL as to commercially produced grapes! So whether or not it's DDT or cyanide or bird poo - grapes should be struck off the diet sheet! Booky Joey 21 Posts quote:
Originally posted by moorie
As of yesterday, I'm gutted to have to tell you but grapes have claimed the lives of 2 more animals belonging to some very good friends of mine in the UK. I'm not going to say what kind of animal as they will come forward and announce it themseleves when they feel ready, all I will tell you is it's not suggies, dogs or parrots.
The past reports of dogs and parrots are easy to dismiss as the dogs are in the US and they belong to strangers, I've fed all my animals grapes and there's never been any problems, but now it's too close to home to ignore (or bury your head in the sand!)
IF YOU ARE FEEDING GRAPES, STOP NOW!! It has NOTHING to do with different digestive systems or how they function. I believe it is the insecticide DDT that is STILL used in SOME countries today. The DDT is sprayed whether it's directly on to the crop or not, some residue will settle on to the plant BUT ALSO it is washed INTO the soil and is ABSORBED by the plant and will be passed on to the fruit growing on the plant. So washing the fruit thoroughly WILL NOT wash away the DDT, it's actually IN the fruit.
I would imagine the toxins build up in the system to the point that the kidneys cannot cope with trying to erradicate it, and they fail, which sadly happened to my friends animals.
I know there's going to be people who will say "I'm not going to stop feeding them to my suggies because they love them!" but ask yourself if it's worth it! Your suggies won't love you any less if they don't receive another grape, but how will you feel if the grape you've handed your suggie is laced with a very potent toxin?
I should also say that in the US and in the UK DDT is NOT used, so Californian grapes MAY be ok, but again is it worth the risk? I won't be feeding a single grape to any animal ever again, it makes me wonder whether WE should even be eating them!!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T IGNORE THIS!!
 Booky Joey 21 Posts Oh my Goodness!- I am so glad to come to this website today. I purchased a baby suggie as a mate for my female suggie and had just gotten him on Monday, of this week, I found him dead this morning after FEEDING him GRAPES LAST NIGHT!- iT NEVER OCCURRED TO ME THAT IT COULD BE THE GRAPES THAT I FED him. Could someone please help me out by telling me more about the grapes and why they are not good for baby gliders? I have a glider that is one year old and I have been feeding grapes since I have first had her with no problem. When I found my pet dead this morning, I originally thought that it was because he was taken from mom too soon. and the breeder is just trying to make money by selling too young animals to the public. I am really upset about this and need some advice. quote:
Originally posted by Booky
quote:
Originally posted by moorie
As of yesterday, I'm gutted to have to tell you but grapes have claimed the lives of 2 more animals belonging to some very good friends of mine in the UK. I'm not going to say what kind of animal as they will come forward and announce it themseleves when they feel ready, all I will tell you is it's not suggies, dogs or parrots.
The past reports of dogs and parrots are easy to dismiss as the dogs are in the US and they belong to strangers, I've fed all my animals grapes and there's never been any problems, but now it's too close to home to ignore (or bury your head in the sand!)
IF YOU ARE FEEDING GRAPES, STOP NOW!! It has NOTHING to do with different digestive systems or how they function. I believe it is the insecticide DDT that is STILL used in SOME countries today. The DDT is sprayed whether it's directly on to the crop or not, some residue will settle on to the plant BUT ALSO it is washed INTO the soil and is ABSORBED by the plant and will be passed on to the fruit growing on the plant. So washing the fruit thoroughly WILL NOT wash away the DDT, it's actually IN the fruit.
I would imagine the toxins build up in the system to the point that the kidneys cannot cope with trying to erradicate it, and they fail, which sadly happened to my friends animals.
I know there's going to be people who will say "I'm not going to stop feeding them to my suggies because they love them!" but ask yourself if it's worth it! Your suggies won't love you any less if they don't receive another grape, but how will you feel if the grape you've handed your suggie is laced with a very potent toxin?
I should also say that in the US and in the UK DDT is NOT used, so Californian grapes MAY be ok, but again is it worth the risk? I won't be feeding a single grape to any animal ever again, it makes me wonder whether WE should even be eating them!!
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T IGNORE THIS!!
oberon2128 Joey  USA 41 Posts I am very sorry to hear about your friends loss and rightfully understand your concern over the feeding of grapes. However, there are several reason why I cannot agree with your response. One, the overwhelming evidence supports the fact that grapes are a safe fruit to eat. I am very sorry for the loss your friends have experienced, but a few anecdotal evidence does not trump the number of successful diets, which include grapes. Second, pesticides, particularly DDT, are specific, bioaccumulative toxins. Pesticides are designed to specifically attack the processes and physiology of the organism they are designed to kill. I will use DDT as an example, as it is the chemical you are concerned with. DDT is designed to attack chitin formation in insects, as only athropods form Chitin it was assumed safe for use. However, it did bioaccumulate in organisms in the environment. The best example of this was the Osprey along the coat of New England. Plants were sprayed with DDT and the insects were eaten by fish. Finally the fish were consumed by the Osprey. While the ammount of DDT in any given Osprey could reach 1,000 to 10,000 times the ammount that was originally sprayed on an equal weight of plant material, the DDT did not harm the adult Osprey as DDT is designed to inhibit chitin formation and Osprey do not make chitin. I took a very long time to remove DDT from use. The reason was except for insects there were no mass killings of wildlife associated with DDT use. DDT is very toxic to birds reptiles and mammals but not in a way that kills adults. DDT inhibits reproductive pathways in these animals. For the Osprey the problem was on multiple levels. It inhibits conception pathways, so less babies were concieved. It inhibits embryo formation, so concieved chicks often weren't able to develop. Finaly, the worst effect was on egg shell formation. The egg shells were so thin that many chicks died from cracked eggs and water loss. it took years for ecologists and environmentalists to notice the decline in Osprey populations and then many more years to associate the very low birth rates with DDT. Thankfully it is illegal in most first world nations. What is true about DDT and many other pesticides is that they do not kill birds, reptiles and mammals outright. Some are lethal in high enough quantities but those quantities can be easily regulated with a simple washing of your food, which should be done even for organic foods to remove dirt and pathogens. There are many possible reason why cases have surface for grape related deaths. The first problem is they only correlate grapes to death, there is no direct evidence to show grapes caused the death. The experiment that would need to be done to prove grapes as an usafe food source is grossly unethical and God help the person that even considers putting animal through it. If you are very concerned about grapes then do not feed. However, please don't throw up an alarm in the Glider community based soely in your personal fears. I know if I looked at everybody's concerns and never fed those foods my two wonderful girls would never get to eat anything. My approach to most foods is moderation and variety. If a researcher/ vetrinarian can show me a very strong reason not to feed grapes, then my girls will get other fruits. I stopped using a calcium supliment with vitamin D in it because it has been strongly connected to organ calcification in reptiles, and it is safe to assume that could happen in gliders. My passion and career is in ecology and environmental work. I have studied and worked on the affects of toxins in the environment and read alot on how to simulate the best natural diet I can for my two girls. I am always tweeking it. Grapes are a food that should be watched, but it helps no one to give alarm based on a few sources. There are three choices you have, as in captivity it is up to owners to regulate the diet they use. You can completely stop using grapes, use them only on occasion as an extra suppliment, or go ahead and feed your suggies grapes as normal. I really care for my girls and would do anything for them, so I will continue to read and read and read some more. If in my reading I find out that grapes do contain something very toxic I will be with you rallying to help get them removed from diets. Till then I can't see giving up the nutrition and variety in the diet based on a few stories. moorie Glider 131 Posts The following is a quote from my friend concerned. Personally, I cannot justify risking the lives of my animals for one grape! It's all down to the individual, but this is TOO close to home for my liking, and as the skunks died as a direct result of eating the grapes, I'm sorry but to me that's proof that grapes ARE dangerous. There's PLENTY of other fruits and veg out there, so variety is NOT an issue, I'm a huge advocate of a varied diet (ONE of the reasons I don't use bml!) At the end of the day, dogs have been dying from consuming grapes since 2001, parrots have been affected and now 2 skunks have died as a direct result of eating grapes, personally I don't care what anyone says, DDT or no DDT grapes are killing animals, and I for one am not willing to risk lives for the sake of a measley grape! I'm sorry if you think my warning was un necessary but then I do actually care, and don't want others to have to go through the same thing! Next time I'll keep my big mouth shut and HOPE it doesn't happen to anyone else!!! quote:
Right im a bit more together today, and nerys has explained alot pretty well so i dont hav to answer all the awful questions, our skunks got into a bag of grapes (i didnt explain myself at all guys before im sorry its all a bit of a mess here) thinking grapes were safe for skunks we cleaned the mess and told them off, i then resumed feeding them their normal diet minus the grapes seeing as they pigged out before, if i had known grapes were dangerous it would of been induced vomiting and straight to the vets but i left them to bimble around at their will thinking all was ok. later that day mary jane started getting the shakes and then lost the ability to walk correctly and we then had her lifeless and ray thought we had lost her, straight to the vets for her (we still had not linked this to grapes as stompy seemed fine) the vets worked their socks off, stompy later dropped in body temp and started shaking, straight to the vets for him we thought we had caught whatever it was early as we had only seen the shaking but we were wrong, terribly wrong. the link then arose the grapes were the only thing we could think of and so could the vets so we worked on that basis until test results returned to confirm it, which they did.
If i had used my damn brain and taken them straight to the vets after the grapes they may have survived we will never know, its my fault they died i will never forgive myself. I need to get these sites changed grapes need to be taken out of skunk diets. if i hadnt fed them grapes in their diet this binge may mot of effected them. its all whats and ifs and buts
moorie Glider 131 Posts Around 1989, the APCC began noticing a trend in dogs who had eaten grapes or raisins: Nearly all developed acute renal (kidney) failure. As more cases were reported, enough data was generated in the database to help veterinarians identify and treat dogs at risk. In all of the cases, the ingredients for potential acute renal failure were the same. Whether the ingested grapes were purchased fresh from grocery stores or grown in private yards didn't seem to matter, nor did the brand eaten. And the ingested amounts varied considerably, from over a pound of grapes to as little as a single serving of raisins. The cases weren't from any specific region, but instead came from across the United States. The database showed that dogs who ate the grapes and raisins typically vomited within a few hours of ingestion. Most of the time, partially digested grapes and raisins could be seen in the vomit, fecal material, or both. At this point, some dogs would stop eating (anorexia), and develop diarrhea. The dogs often became quiet and lethargic, and showed signs of abdominal pain. These clinical signs lasted for several days -- sometimes even weeks When medical care was sought, blood chemistry panels showed consistent patterns. Hypercalcemia (elevated blood calcium levels) was frequently present, as well as elevated levels of blood urea nitrogen, creatinine and phosphorous (substances that reflect kidney function). These chemistries began to increase anywhere from 24 hours to several days after the dogs ate the fruit. As the kidney damage developed, the dogs would produce little urine. When they could no longer produce urine, death occurred. In some cases, dogs who received timely veterinary care still had to be euthanized. Why did the fruit cause the dogs to become ill? No one knows. Suspect grapes and raisins have been screened for various pesticides, heavy metals (such as zinc or lead), and mycotoxins (fungal contaminants) and so far, all results have come back negative. In the cases where the grapes were grown in private yards, owners confirmed that no insecticides, fertilizers or antifungals had been used on the fruit. "Raisin" the Success RateEven though the exact cause of the renal failure is unknown, dogs who ingest grapes and raisins can be treated successfully to prevent its development. The first line of defense is decontamination. Inducing vomiting in recent ingestions and administering activated charcoal helps prevent absorption of potential toxins. Dogs should be hospitalized and placed on intravenous fluids for a minimum of 48 hours. A veterinarian should monitor blood chemistry daily for at least three days following the ingestion. If all blood work is normal after three days, it's unlikely that kidney failure will occur. If a dog shows evidence of renal failure, fluids must be continued, and other medications should be used to stimulate urine production. Some dogs may need peritoneal dialysis, a process where the peritoneum (the membranes surrounding the abdominal organs) is used to filter waste products that are normally filtered by the kidney. Thanks in part to the AnTox database, grape or raisin ingestion can be easily identified and treated. Today, a dog can make a complete recovery from this potentially fatal condition. also A less known toxin for pets is raisins and grapes. The ASPCA Poison Control Center indicates that raisins and grapes may be toxic to some dogs. The ASPCA Poison Control Center managed 140 cases of raisin or grape toxicity in the last year. Over 50 of these dogs developed symptoms ranging from vomiting to kidney failure, and 7 of these dogs died. The toxic principal causing these symptoms has yet to be identified. One specific case involved a 2 year old Australian shepherd that ingested 1 cup of raisins. The dog developed acute renal failure a few days later and died. http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1833
also Grapes/Raisins Essentially unheard of prior to 2001, raisin and grape toxicity has become increasingly recognized as a real danger to pets. Although previously deemed as harmless treats, research has determined grapes and raisins have been linked to kidney failure in both dogs and cats. The toxic substance in grapes and raisins is unknown, as is the amount required to produce toxicity. Since 1989, the ASPCA has documented many cases of raisin and grape toxicity, and more recently (2001) it has been officially recognized as a toxin to animals. Studies of documented cases show estimated amounts of grapes or raisins eaten ranged from nine ounces to two pounds, with symptoms occurring within approximately 6 hours of ingestion. Symptoms include vomiting, loss of appetite, sluggishness, and abdominal pain. Testing found elevated blood calcium levels, as well as elevated levels of blood urea nitrogen, creatinine and phosphorous – all substances that affect kidney function. The result is the development of acute renal (kidney) failure, within as little as 3 days of ingestion. http://www.bdnhumanesociety.com/householddangers.htm
anjuli503 Face Hugger  USA 823 Posts quote:
Right im a bit more together today, and nerys has explained alot pretty well so i dont hav to answer all the awful questions, our skunks got into a bag of grapes (i didnt explain myself at all guys before im sorry its all a bit of a mess here) thinking grapes were safe for skunks we cleaned the mess and told them off, i then resumed feeding them their normal diet minus the grapes seeing as they pigged out before, if i had known grapes were dangerous it would of been induced vomiting and straight to the vets but i left them to bimble around at their will thinking all was ok. later that day mary jane started getting the shakes and then lost the ability to walk correctly and we then had her lifeless and ray thought we had lost her, straight to the vets for her (we still had not linked this to grapes as stompy seemed fine) the vets worked their socks off, stompy later dropped in body temp and started shaking, straight to the vets for him we thought we had caught whatever it was early as we had only seen the shaking but we were wrong, terribly wrong. the link then arose the grapes were the only thing we could think of and so could the vets so we worked on that basis until test results returned to confirm it, which they did.
If i had used my damn brain and taken them straight to the vets after the grapes they may have survived we will never know, its my fault they died i will never forgive myself. I need to get these sites changed grapes need to be taken out of skunk diets. if i hadnt fed them grapes in their diet this binge may mot of effected them. its all whats and ifs and buts
id love to hear the actual results of the test that confirmed it was infact grapes. would she be willing to post the autopsy report? i know this will be a touchy subject for her and i am sorry her skunks died, but her autopsy report could help others in the future. moorie Glider 131 Posts Rach Face Hugger 626 Posts Hi I had to take one of my ringtails (ringo) to the vet today, as I had noticed he has not been his normal self. He has had bloods taken and a urine sample taken, While the vet tried to draw urine via a needle into the bladder he started to bleed from his cloaca, we dont know whats wrong yet. While I was there I asked him about grapes, he said that they do have some sort of toxins in them which can cause problems, I have asked him to get the info for me so that I can post it here. We didnt go into it much whilst I was ther as I was too worried about Ringo. Fingers crossed he will be ok. Rach I am Waiting on result of the blood test but it could be he has kidney failure, It seems that grapes may or may not have an affect on animals across the board. I used to feed lots of grapes but since I heard about the potential health hazards I only feed a few each night. I may not know fore sure that it is grapes that has caused his problem but it cannot be ruled out either. moorie Glider 131 Posts Anjuli - the sustances found in the blood REFLECT kidney function, the elevated levels are CAUSED BY kidney failure. quote:
A less known toxin for pets is raisins and grapes. The ASPCA Poison Control Center indicates that raisins and grapes may be toxic to some dogs. The ASPCA Poison Control Center managed 140 cases of raisin or grape toxicity in the last year. Over 50 of these dogs developed symptoms ranging from vomiting to kidney failure, and 7 of these dogs died. The toxic principal causing these symptoms has yet to be identified. One specific case involved a 2 year old Australian shepherd that ingested 1 cup of raisins. The dog developed acute renal failure a few days later and died
The fact is animals are dying from ingesting grapes (and raisins), just because the toxin is unknown doesn't mean it's not there. When you trickle feed a toxin it builds up slowly in the system, the kidneys break down and excrete as much as they can, but when the level gets too high the kidney cannot remove the toxins and it leaks into the system, which returns it to the kidney's which will overload them and they'll cease functioning. I have spoken to many suggie owners and even before this happened they've stopped feeding grapes. Is it really worth the risk? My suggies diet isn't going to be lacking in anything just because I don't give them grapes. oberon2128 Joey USA 41 Posts The first issue I am concerned with is that there is no cause and effect shown in any of the documented cases. The information provided is all correlational in nature. The problem with correlations is that unless they are absolutely wacky (there is actually an inverse correlation between number of pirates in the world and the rise in greenhouse gasses)they appear to show cause and effect. At this point we can only absolutely confirm that some dogs suffered acute renal failure after ingesting grapes and raisins. The second issue is that the animals in question suffered acute renal failure, not chronic. Chronic renal failure would be a major concern because it would be much harder to make the claim that because my suggies eat grapes regularly with no signs of concern that the cases mentioned are isolated. Instead all reports I have read describe acute renal failure. An animal has no known conditions and then eats grapes (and most of the time grapes are not a staple item in the animals diets. After eating grapes the kidneys begin to shut down. Because it is acute and not a noted chronic disorder (such as calcification of the organs associated with the added vitamin D suppliments in the diet)the fact that many gliders and other pets consume grapes regularly points to the fact that at least in small quantities there is no reason for concern. My third issue is concerning the ecological niche that grapes fall into. By this I mean grapes, the fruit itself, are a form of seed dispersal. The evolutionary mechanisms that helped to develop the grape were designed specifically around grapes being consumed. In larger animals grapes are consumed whole so that seeds are swallowed. Then the seeds can be passed after the animal leaves the vicinity of the parent plant. In smaller animals, the grapes are "harvested" and moved away from the plant, sometimes far often not very far. but the fruit is consumed and the seeds are dropped and dispersed in that manner. There is no logical jump to make that chemicals in grapes would cause death to the form of dispersal that is trying to be taken advantage of. My fourth issue is that the only toxins that have been found to date are those that are associated with renal failure. There could be many reasons for renal failure, and many have to do with the animal's individual anatomy. A major cause of renal failure in humans is diabetes. It is very logical to think that the animals in question could suffer from diabetes or another similar ailment. If that is the case, then no toxins from the grapes would be found. Instead the grapes, with a fairly high sugar content, would be the catalyst but not the cause for renal failure. My fifth concern is that all the documented "confirmed" cases that I have read invlove dogs. Yes, it is possible for cases of other animals to fly under the radar of documentation, but you would think at least a few in other animals would surface. That being said, if we ignore all other evidence it still would be difficult to say that grapes in general are toxic, or cause toxic affects, to all animals. My final issue is that while cases have surfaced there are no overwhelming numbers of cases that would help to show grapes as a more serious threat. The opposite however is true. Many pet owners, particularly exotic pet owners use grapes in their diets. Zoos utilize grapes as well, and there are no major death toles associated with feeding grapes. It is hard to make a case for a complete stop in feeding grapes when it is done succesfully across the world. I will reiterate my concerns from earlier. Grapes, because there is some correlative evidence definitely should be watched, but we will never know for sure because the experiments needed to show a cause and affect relationship would be highly unethical. If a pet owner is concerned he or she should take the actions they feel necesary ; however, raising an alarm at every food that has this kind of correlative evidence will drastically limit one's ability to provide a ballanced varied diet for those gliders kept as pets. I am sorry for anyones loss, I can't even imagine losing my two wonderful girls, but I also cannot logical rally against a food that my girls eat successfully and that at this point cannot be show as the cause of any animals death. Eric C Retired    TX, USA 2322 Posts I think it's a bit too early to rain on the parade of Bacchus. Moorie, I noticed you copied and pasted directly from pages on the ASPCA website without quoting or referencing them as a source. For anyone that would like to reference the entire article it can be found here
Of special note is the mention of their illness database, which is named AnTox tm. The article goes on to say a "trend" was noticed in 1989. I searched google for more information on their database, and most of the results are related to the aforementioned article regarding grapes. It seems that a lot of people are copying and pasting. However, I did find something worth mentioning from the Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine. Here is a link to the abstract
. That abstract says that between 1992 and 2002 there were only 43 cases identified in that database. Of those 43 cases, 23 survived. The grape article on the ASPC is dated for 2002. If you read the bottom of the page it's a reprint from a 2002 article. That grape article and the JVIM study are written in the same time frame, which I think is important to understand the context of the ASPCA article. The ASPCA page makes no mention of how many incidents that were recorded prior to 1989 in order for them to conclude there was a trend. I have to question why the ASPCA chose to highlight that there were a half a million cases in their database at the time instead of saying how many incidents there were. I am not a statistician, but I wonder what is the significance of these reports and what constitutes the conclusion that there is a trend. One major thing that is not addressed by the database or the JVIM analysis of the database is environmental factors. Off the top of my head I can think of the following questions to ask: Where were the grapes stored? What kind of cleaning agents are used in the house and have the grapes come into contact with any surfaces that were cleaned by said agents? If the dog was unattended, what kind of other inappropriate items could the dog have possibly consumed? If the dog was attended, why was the dog allowed to each such a significant amount of grapes or raisins and what else could the owner have fed the animal that is not being addressed? Were any of the raisins chocolate covered? What kind of eating habits does the dog have, as in does the dog eat fast or chew its food before swallowing? All of the articles that mention the grape effect are careful in their wording. None of them say grapes are the cause of the effect, only suggesting a possibility. Such wording may be because there is a lack of empirical evidence. There seems to be a lack of context for the reports in the database. Context is very important lest we let our fears manifest as irrational decision making. There is an enormous amount of evidence that Dihydrogen Monoxide kills people, but we should not start banning the use of such chemicals without understanding the context of those deaths. As for pirates and global warming, that is from the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
. More information can be found here
, here
, and here
. I do think there is some sort of relationship here with grapes and kidney failure with dogs, but not necessarily a cause and effect relationship. The ASPCA database is not species specific, and I have not seen any mention of grapes being poisonous to other species. Since dogs and cats are the most popular of pets, I think one could safely conclude that the database must contain a lot information about both of those species. Has anyone seen any mention from ASPCA sources of cats being effected by grapes? I think oberon has made some very valid points. The Merck vet manual has some information on the topic of grapes as well, view their page here
. The article does say that not all dogs that eat grapes develop kidney failure. The ASPCA account of grapes seems to overlook that significant detail. I can't help but wonder if there is an environmental issue being overlooked since there seems to be an implication that a dog can eat grapes with no ill effects. This leads me to the following question: Can dogs digest cellulose? Humans can't, which is why we masticate and cook our food. If you've ever ate some corn and didn't chew it all the way, then in a day or so you'll be seeing that corn again in the toilet. Sorry to be so graphic, but humans can't digest the cellulose that comprises the encasing of corn, so it passes through our systems largely undigested, and we don't get much of anything from it of nutritional value. The same can be said of leafy greens, they're more often eaten as a source of roughage and not for any nutritional benefit, as the greens aren't really digested very well. So what is the case with dogs, which are by and large carnivores? Such digestive systems are generally not capable of breaking down plant material like an herbivore would. When grapes are seen in the vomit or feces of a dog experiencing renal failure, could this simply be a false commonality because such items could be readily identifiable due to not being digested? Other food items a dog could possibly eat would more likely not be identifiable in vomit due to digestion leading to those cases of kidney failure to be overlooked because grapes were not seen in the dog's vomit or feces. Grapes could be a coincidental subset of a completely different issue. I think because these observations of a dog and grape relationship are fairly recent that some type of contamination of the food is more likely than grapes being the cause. Humans have been eating and enjoying grapes for thousands of years. Our love for the fruit has given us wine and vinegar. Humans have also had dogs around for thousands of years as well, not only as pets but as tools to help with maintaining farms and livestock as well as a tool for hunting. There is an undeniable relationship between humans and dogs as well as between humans and grapes. Given the long history, I can't help but wonder why no vineyard farmers have never noticed that their dogs would die shortly after vomiting up grapes? Surely after thousands of years someone would have noticed this and, at the very least, come up with some sort of superstition to explain it. The only thing I can think of even remotely similar to any sort of superstition is fictitious and involves cherries and Jack Nicholson. The recent nature of this grape effect is, in my opinion, a significant part of this mystery. Our methods of farming have changed quite drastically in the last 100 years. As for the effects of grapes on sugar gliders, I have to say that I don't think any effect exists, at least not like the effect described for dogs. If the problem is to occur in dogs they must eat a large serving of grapes or raisins. The effects are severe and happen very quickly. A single grape for a sugar glider is fairly large when looking at the proportions of the grape and the sugar glider's body size. It would be like a human eating a grape the size of a basket ball. Sugar glider owners have been feeding grapes for years and there have been no substantiated reports of sugar gliders dying shortly after eating a grape nearly the size of their head. Something as severe as what seems to be happening to dogs could not go unnoticed among sugar glider owners since grapes are a fairly common part of what sugar gliders are fed, either as part of a diet or as a treat. moorie Glider 131 Posts I'm thrilled to see that most of you think this is funny! At the risk of being slammed (again), I just thought you might like to know, there's been two more deaths, skunks again died within 8 hours of eating a couple each! If all this grape thing is just BS, then why are vets aware of it? Why are they advising we don't feed them to our animals? Why are they in the danger foods lists in various magazines?
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