Just saying: I got my pair of female sugar gliders off of Craigs list, and they were gotten from a breeder in MD last year. The mother of 4 children said after the kids lost interest, they were too much for her. I had planned on adopting suggies needing re-homing, so have been looking on Craigs list & Ebay for months prior to getting mine, and saw an equal mix of them from both pocket pets & other breeders, that just couldn't care for them anymore, for one reason or another, sometimes it was because of moving, or going away to college, other times "just not enough time anymore". But the point is, after I did much research prior, I had gotten so confused that I almost didn't get any. I decided to keep watching CL & Ebay and noticing the varied origins of the gliders and reasons for re-homing. I came to the conclusion to just not hold any judgement against either side. I did see PP at the mall last Christmas season, and actually had one poop & pee on me while it was on my arm, the guy just grabbed a wipe and cleaned it off, not making any comment, I never heard anyone say they wouldn't "potty" on you at anytime. I don't fully understand how this got so ugly, sure PP wants to sell gliders, breeders want to sell gliders, why can't everyone just get along. As for conflicting diet choices I don't see really any difference in the care other than that, so I'll just "agree to disagree". My gliders were on a diet of :cooked chicken, eggs, yogurt, meal worms, fresh fruit & veggies. They're about 1yr old, 2months apart in age, and seemed healthy, maybe a little heavy. I have a good friend, who in the past had gotten SG's from a breeder and due to misinformation at that time, her gliders died. She got a female glider from PP over 2yrs ago and a male 6 months later also from PP, and they are healthy and doing great on the PP diet. So I am left to conclude that it doesn't matter where or from whom you purchase the gliders, it's how you care for them, and no matter which diet you choose, if you stick to the one or the other to the "T" they should be fine. Now most of you will probably "blast" me for this input, but I felt I needed to say it regardless of the fallout.

Okay, I am a new Pocket Pet owner, (Feb) and I will say that their owner info does advise you to give them as their MAIN food source Pellets and Apples with the vitamins sprinkled on them everyother day or at least three times a week. They state you can offer other treats to your 'Sugar Bear', but that you should be cautious because it can be stressful to their digestive system. In selling me my glider it was stated that she would not need to visit a vet, they only need the 2 yr supply of food and vitamins I purchased and that the cage I got 18 x 18 x 24 was fine (I wanted a bigger cage) anything bigger could injure or kill a baby glider and that other companies including them have had many problems with cages so I was required to buy theirs. I was also encouraged on their "family circle", cd and by the sales rep to not visit any outside websites or forums because the information I obtained their would be DETRIMENTAL to the health and well being of my glider. I asked if she needed a friend and was specifically told that gliders are fine by themselves, and even when I went back the next day was advised that she really didn't need a friend. (all of their conversations are recorded and therefore this can be proven). I was AFRAID to come to the forums, but after I did I realized she needed to go to a vet get on a good diet find a buddy and have better living arrangements. The first thing my vet said is THROW out the heat rock they have even seen snakes come in burnt that the rocks should be illegal. I own a buisness and understand that he is in it to make money however I really just wish now that they really were more open about the pros and CONS so that when we purchase we really understand what we are getting into. You would see alot less gliders up for adoption or sick and dying because people walked away like me thinking I was buying a hamster or ferret. Hang me for falling in love when I saw them and not doing PRE Research, but really who can walk past and not fall in love. One good thing he is doing is making the price tag HIGH, I was in it at 600+ for one glider, cage, heat rock, bonding pouch and food (extra food, vitamins and heater) that at least helps from having a bunch of teens or people who aren't capable finacially of bringing them home.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by finnessa</i>
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<br />PP often sell unweaned gliders. The majority of which are inbred. Most people who buy from pocket pets lose their gliders within a year. They run up thousands in vet bills as they start to become very sick due to being inbred.
They are mill breeders so they are just interested in breeding as many as they can for money rather then keeping the gliders healthy. They keep them in TINY cages, feed them a less than adequate diet. They tell people that they are fine to keep alone, to feed them pellets and an apple slice, to use a heatrock (that are nutorious for burning gliders as they get too hot) and basically say any * to get people to buy them.

Apparently they can often be found in malls (I'm from the UK where this doesn't happen thank god) and the tiny little gliders are forced to be awake in the day time being passed around tons of people all drawn in by their cute looks and misinformed pocket pets care guide.
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This is not accurate either. This is the opinion of this community of people and not based off of facts. I actually tend to hear more people say I got a glider from PPP and it was healthy over hearing of the sick ones. Does it happens? Yes of course it does just as it does with any breeder even within our own community. I know PPP if contacted and given the proper information required will help cover the fees if proven that it was at their fault. Just as our own breeders do, yet I know some that don't.

Can it be proven beyond an assumption that the gliders are inbred? Nope sure can't being you don't know who his suppliers are. The owner of PPP said himself when he attended the SGGA 2 years ago that breeders within our community supply him with babies. So would that mean our own breeders also inbreed gliders?

Once again they are not breeders they are brokers. Have you seen the extensive amount of research Virgil Klunder presented at that SGGA? Probably not being you are in the UK. I'd say someone only in it for the money wouldn't have done the extensive amount of research/testing and studies he has.

They do not tell people to just feed pellets and apple slices. Again a misconception of fact.

Can you show proof of burns to a gliders? Vet documents? Anything besides hearsay? Virgil has already put that to the test. Prove it with fact and he'd work at removing it. There is no documented proof of such a thing.

Did you know PPP recently funded a very well known rescue in our community with neuters for her rescues? Sounds like the devil to me, doesn't it to you?
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Yeah it's a shame that a "very well known rescue" is now working with/for PPP , what is the name of this well known rescue?are they legal?.

I ACTUALLY volunteer with <u>legitimate</u> non-profit, State/ Federally licensed rescues(5-6) and I'm insulted and totally disgusted when amateurs claim that "they are a rescue" when in fact, THEY ARE NOT! You want to be respected as a rescue? Get a f'n license and do it legally!!!

finnessa are you a breeder? A licensed breeder?

"Once again they are not breeders they are brokers. Have you seen the extensive amount of research Virgil Klunder presented at that SGGA? Probably not being you are in the UK. I'd say someone only in it for the money wouldn't have done the extensive amount of research/testing and studies he has."

Are you on crack?What is his background in animals? Are you talking about ASGV? Dr.Brust? Why don't you call someone one in Australia, perhaps a zoo or wildlife rescue and ask them how much help and research he has done for these animals.


You're just a troll, go back to please and quit spewing your crap here!

As for the heat rock, it's been trashed as has the vitamins, top of cage heater and pellets.. the little cage I will use when we travel or for maybe an emergency cage. So what I have now is a very very expensive standard grey BEAUTIFUL baby girl :) on HPW original waiting patiently for her cage friend to come home in 4 weeks. haha

Doug (dpatters) has made a ton of illustrations for this! Pocket Pets was at a mall near me lastnight! But I had no idea until someone told me at a later time. I will be printing off his illlustration work and giving them to people interested in them and all that other good stuff! :)

I do know PP is attempting to "improve" some of their stuff such as diet. I do commend them for neutering all males, altho I suspect it isn't for any other reason than to cut down on the competition.

But I have often wondered why if Virgil is so on the up & up why he doesn't just open a chain of pet stores? Why breeze thru town after town? I suspect I already know the answer to that.

But I've said it before and I'll say it again, he may be trying to make improvements but I personally think he really needs to revamp his sales team and his sales pitch. I totally get that people will defend the fact that he comes clean on several things on his website...such as needing a bigger cage and introducing new items to their diet...BUT when you are standing in the middle of the mall YOU ARE NOT TOLD THIS STUFF! Yep, shame on all of us that didn't walk away, go home and research first. But I know for a fact...that was my intention but when I asked how long they were staying, I was told, "oh we're out of here tomorrow night at Mall closing." So I ask, when they would be back,..."oh we don't know, we don't even know where we're going next. It may not be for a year or so or we may never come back here, we just don't know." Of course I now know that is the "panic ploy." Most of us have never even seen these sweet babies so we don't even know where to get them and they prey on that idea of, I better do it now or I may never see them again and I'll miss out on my only chance to have one or two of these babies.

And his sales team does misrepresent and they tell flat out lies.... I was told a sugar "bear" doesn't have bones! NO BONES! Bahahaha! I was also told they never need vet care.... Kodah had roundworms! If I hadn't found this forum I would have never known....chances are him, and all my others would be very sick right now or dead had I not taken then in for vet checks before intros.

I'll concede they may be attempting to make progress but more needs to be done.

No he doesn't come clean I even personally spoke with the VP and he again restated the original facts and also said that if I changed diets and cages I would be putting my glider in DANGER possibly causing her death from falling. :( He did offer where they would be selling gliders over the next several weeks at the time, so I could buy a friend but by then I knew not to get another from them. He did state that he wasn't happy that the sales guy said that I shouldn't touch my glider for 2 weeks... I had called because I was feeling frustrated with their non-human approach to the support process and that I felt their sales tactics were not very ethical and that they should be more honest with the customers. They tell us we will have a direct phone number to someone... NO! They tell us they NEVER get sick.. NO! They tell us that they are the perfect pet for a wheelchair bound person?? now that I have one I can only say WTF?!? How would they be able to do the catching when they get loose, maybe a perfectly trained one if that is even possible. I really wish more buyers would push them like I have been because then maybe they would understand that their sales practices just don't make good sense, people would STILL BUY but we would actually have better knowledge.